Ulysses please explain why you're selling us out

[Conquiztador]

Actually he was very specific:

he said Ulysseus had agreed to negotiate the "ringfencing" of some of the levy increase for use in safety initiatives.

This is concerning. If this is not right, then I would recommend Ulysseus to clear this out by whatever means possible ASAP, because if it is a blatant lie from Smitty, then he clearly has the intention of causing cracks in the biker ranks.

But if this is true, then I would be very disappointed as I do not speak for Ulysseus and they do not speak for me or for the rest of the NZ bikers.

[Grahameeboy]

Can't buy or change attitude of dickhead cage drivers like the tart you mentioned, but would you have seen it coming and known how to react had you not been an experienced rider?

Any money spent on rider development has to be a positive step toward reducing biker accidents by improving the level of rider competence.

That's the point..it's experience and learning to ride in the UK that helps me....the other day I had these guy on a GXSR..oldish guy...he was so close and to my left he was just about visible in my mirror....he wwould be regarded as experienced.

The way I see it if you have a bad attitude no amount of training will work and to be honest I am not sure that NZ is upto it.

In the UK the Police ran training sessions...they would take us out..within reasons...no speed limits...comment on our riding..class stuff etc...standard training..even the Part 1 and Part 2 tests in the UK don't give you the right experience so that is when bad attitude comes in....

Not saying that no traing will not help but attitude is a whole picture thing

[ManDownUnder]

Smith can negotiate with Ulysses all he wants. Nothing against them - they're a great bunch of people but they can speak for other motorcycling groups just as much as the others can speak for them. I respect their right to speak for themselves - but did Nick Smith just appoint them spokespeople for us all?

In which case I want to be ACC spokesperson

[PhantasmNZ]

wasn't there so can't comment on the quote personally - but it sounds like nicky is answering a different question to the one he was asked (SOP for politicians) - and using carefully crafted spin in order to divide an conquer.

I assume Ulysses don't suddenly support the levy increases, and that their point is that some of the levy money should go to education (which is a sentiment shared I believe by Bronz). What would be useful if the Ulysses admin are reading this, would be an official press release countering these statement (or at least clarifying the intention behind the comments).

It's easy for us all to slip into the mindset we're dealing with morons here... but we need to remember to beware these are all very intelligent people - with sinister agendas and loost of experience in "perception management"

[ManDownUnder]

ote objects 3(e) on page two of http://www.ulysses.org.nz/pdf/rules-ulysses-club.pdf

"e) To communicate, affiliate or enter into other relations,

Clubs, associations, or other bodies having a similar
member of, or cooperate, with any such Clubs, associations,
may be likely to further the purposes of the Club."

I respectfully request that be done if there is any substance to Nick Smith's assertion

[Brian d marge]

Back when this all started wasn't Ulysses saying it was a non political group and want to keep it that way

Then when it realized the enormity of the situation ,,, fronted up

Who said what to whom and when I don't know, I do Know that our very own Scarlet Pimpernel is the one I am backing

Has done a lot and been consistent through and through

Stephen

[Ixion]

Well, I didn't let it out.

But since it is out I may now comment.

I am not a member of Ulysses , or associated with them in any way. I know quite a lot of Ulyssians , and have a great respect for them (even the bearded one who keeps turning up like a bad penny. Especially him, actually)

So, this is my own understanding and 'take' on it.

It is quite certain that Mr Smith believed that he had an understanding with the National President of Ulysses. That understanding was based , very generally, on a context that Ulysses, who Nick thought was the only significant biker association in the country, would not enter more than pro forma objections to the proposed levies .

In particular Ulysses undertook that there would be no protest rides (that was only partly a concession to the Minister, it was also because of genuine concern that a major ride could go badly wrong - a valid concern)

However, once the levies were announced individual Ulyssians and the branches (Auckland especially, I think) were not happy with the position. It was essentially the Ulysses National President's personal position, and one that he found (IMHO) unsustainable

And then KB started the BIKEOI , and BRONZ came in punching , and Nick's hopes of a nice cosy arrangment were shattered. Ulysses official position is now is as stated below.

Mr Smith then discovered that Ulysses did not speak for the country's motorcyclists (and even its own members were joining the protests).

This has made Mr Smith very cross indeed. He is especially cross with BRONZ who he says is "not respectful". I think that he is also very cross with KB, though he seems very confused about the difference between KB and BRONZ (I think he thinks KB is the BRONZ forum) . He considers that Ulysses Wellington is "respectful" (his phrasology) . I think that he is even crosser becuase his cosy arrnagment has blown up in his face .

As to BRONZ giving him the finger, no that is not true (we wouldn't actually be that disrespectful). Mr Smith floated the idea of a separate "safety levy" to us. We replied , in person, and by email , that we would be interested in exploring the idea, and offered to meet with him (in a non protest context) for that purpose . After tonight's meeting I tackled Mr Smith (he made a serious effort to run away , but I positioned myself in such a position that he could not get past. He was very uncomfortable , enough so that the hovering police moved over to stand close by). Mr Smith then admitted that he had indeed received the email. Mr Smith says that he objects to the "conditions" in that offer , though I'm not sure what conditions those were since we made none - though admittedly did not unconditionally agree to support his idea. I've attached a copy of the email for those interested.


I emphasise again that I am not party to internal Ulysses activities , so the above , where it concerns Ulysses is my take on what happened, as an outsider. I can say that Howard Mansell (and I think most if not all the Auckland Ulysses people are as opposed to the levies as we are- though they perhaps have more faith in the powers of submissions and such like than we do.

EDIT Forgot the attachment, included now. Oh, no, I didn't. How silly, you can't uplaod a .txt file. Renamed to .doc , but it's a notepad file

[caseye]

Great work tonight Ixion, Mr sMyth went home with a clearer understanding of what he is up against and I dont believe he got away with anything tonight.He did stay the distance but he didn't win any major points.
We on the other hand did and the news reporters thought so too, claiming that the meeting was attended by several hundred(TV3's own words on their late news) people most of them bikers, who took the minister to task and won many points, that went for the most part unanswered.I hear theres another national party public meeting in Papatoetoe tomorrow night.I'm available if required.

[Conquiztador]

So that explains the lack of comment to this by Ulysses. Were they offered some land and dollars perhaps?

[Ixion]

I do not think it is fair to say that there has been a lack of support from Ulysses, per se. Many members of Ulysses have stood shoulder to shoulder with us - Howard Mansell and many others rode on the BIKEOI, that troublesome bearded gentleman was at the Yacht Club tonight giving Nick what for.

And Ulysses were the first off the mark to organise meetings - they did not want to do rides but that was because of fears that if one went wrong and someone was injured it could all backfire, a reasonable concern.

SO I think Ulyssians have fronted up. Any deals between their President and Nick seem to have been on a personal level.

[Brian d marge]

And Ulysses were the first off the mark to organise meetings - they did not want to do rides but that was because of fears that if one went wrong and someone was injured it could all backfire, a reasonable concern.
.

A very valid concern

but in this case , we need to go French on Master sMyth ,,, and the Bastille was never won over a cup of tea with Lord Chamberlain ( or his equivalent during the reign of terror )

Mass Disobedience and a clogging up of the courts !

Stephen

[Reckless]

Yep I heard it loud and clear from Nick Smiths mouth.
The first thing I thought was, here we go, where going to end a up a smaller ACC increase and an additional safety education levy that adds up to the original amount!

I think Nick Smith is going to come out and say we mis heard a lot of things he said last night!

Ixion would be great if you could get your hands on a copy of that TV3 tape from the whole of the night???

[DIN PELENDA]

Maybe Smith is lying; he was caught in about 3 lies on the night

Ulysseus please explain..................are you negotiating as above?

Why are u on KB asking Useless to explain, as you self should do some investigation. You are old enough to join Useless and found out
I'm with you on this, we like to know answer to it, Mike get you self fluro vest.

Just out of curiosity how much is it to register bike in OZZY.

[idleidolidyll]

A very valid concern

but in this case , we need to go French on Master sMyth ,,, and the Bastille was never won over a cup of tea with Lord Chamberlain ( or his equivalent during the reign of terror )

Mass Disobedience and a clogging up of the courts !

Stephen

something I suggested from the outset but both Ulysseus and BRONZ condemned

[idleidolidyll]

Why are u on KB asking Useless to explain, as you self should do some investigation. You are old enough to join Useless and found out
I'm with you on this, we like to know answer to it, Mike get you self fluro vest.

Just out of curiosity how much is it to register bike in OZZY.

Din,

why should I be forced to join Ulysseus? It's not my kind of organisation.

I have no intention of joining but I do want to know if the statement from Smith is true or whether it is actually more of Smiths lies and manipulation.

I am actually MORE prepared to accept that Smith is full of shit than Ulysseus