The bigger picture.

[Katman]

So how many on here are prepared to consider why we find ourselves in the current situation that we do?

Will those who, in the past, have seen no problem with groups of motorcyclists treating public roads as racetracks, sit there scratching their heads wondering why we are being singled out or will they see this current ACC furore as a 'wake up call' to modify their behaviour?

Regardless of what degree of success we have from Tuesday's protest ride (and any subsequent protest action), if there is not a visible attempt to clean up our own backyard then we will find ourselves being targeted over and over again.

[twotyred]

At the root of it,it has nothing to do with bikes,we are just the thin edge of the wedge of a much larger agenda

[Hiflyer]

I agree,

We are being targetted cos we are at higher risk of injury, its not top seceret.
So it is fair that we pay higher levies, but these major increases are a bit over the top I reckon.

What I would like to see are increases which reflect the statistics more accurately.

Yup there are people out there who treat the road as a track which contributes to the "biker at fault" accidents but what about the "car at fault" ones.

Cleaning up OUR act will only get us so far, we will still be having cars pull out infront of us etc etc. (And there is the age old image of bikers being the "bad-boys" so to speak. Sorry Ladies )

[Katman]

We are being targetted cos we are at higher risk of injury, its not top seceret.

No, we are being targeted because we are over represented in accident statistics (and we are an easy target to have the cost of our mode of transport increased).

Many motorcyclists believe that we are the 'elite' of road users. I'd like to see some proof that we deserve to consider ourselves so highly.

[Maha]

Most (if not any) protest will get both positive and negitive feedback, thats the way it is. Take Homos (oops sorry, gay and lesbians) now if they were to protest against the civil union thing and walk on the roads that we use, disrupting our daily routine, some would think they are just are bunch of fucking homos and some would think on the negitive, thats the way it goes.

[Katman]

Most (if not any) protest will get both positive and negitive feedback, thats the way it is. Take Homos (oops sorry, gay and lesbians) now if they were to protest against the civil union thing and walk on the roads that use, disrupting our daily routine, some would think they are just are bunch of fucking homos and some would think on the negitive, thats the way it goes.

We need to stop and consider why we now find ourselves in the position of needing to protest at all.

[Conquiztador]

So how many on here are prepared to consider why we find ourselves in the current situation that we do?

Will those who, in the past, have seen no problem with groups of motorcyclists treating public roads as racetracks, sit there scratching their heads wondering why we are being singled out or will they see this current ACC furore as a 'wake up call' to modify their behaviour?

Regardless of what degree of success we have from Tuesday's protest ride (and any subsequent protest action), if there is not a visible attempt to clean up our own backyard then we will find ourselves being targeted over and over again.

I agree,

We are being targetted cos we are at higher risk of injury, its not top seceret.
So it is fair that we pay higher levies, but these major increases are a bit over the top I reckon.

What I would like to see are increases which reflect the statistics more accurately.

Yup there are people out there who treat the road as a track which contributes to the "biker at fault" accidents but what about the "car at fault" ones.

Cleaning up OUR act will only get us so far, we will still be having cars pull out infront of us etc etc. (And there is the age old image of bikers being the "bad-boys" so to speak. Sorry Ladies )

Nope. It has nothing to do with the way "we" ride. It is all re National politics. Privatise ACC. At the HB BIKEOI National's Craig Foss did NOT ONCE state that "we" are getting injured too much and "we" need to ajust our riding. But he wanted to know if we would be happy to be able to select a insurer for our ACC instead of an automatic Government ACC provider. He tried to tell us that it would be in our advantage...

So you see, bikers is the first step. If they get past us then everyone will follow. And imagine who will then be prepared to "ACC Insure" you for a all in cover. You will be covered for walking but not running on a road. You will be covered for biking as long as you were not at fault. You will have a shit show to be covered if you want to ski, hang glide, base jump or parachute. Accident cover as we know it will be history.

I do not for one second buy the "riders only have them self to blame for the proposed ACC hikes". You guys are wrong!

[Katman]

I do not for one second buy the "riders only have them self to blame for the proposed ACC hikes". You guys are wrong!

No, you are wrong.

If we, as a whole, had an exemplary record of public road usage there is no way that we would be facing the situation that we are now.

[Hiflyer]

...there who treat the road as a track which contributes to the "biker at fault" accidents but what about the "car at fault" ones.

Cleaning up OUR act will only get us so far, we will still be having cars pull out infront of us etc etc. (And there is the age old image of bikers being the "bad-boys" so to speak. Sorry Ladies )

No, we are being targeted because we are over represented in accident statistics (and we are an easy target to have the cost of our mode of transport increased).

Many motorcyclists believe that we are the 'elite' of road users. I'd like to see some proof that we deserve to consider ourselves so highly.

That was the point I was making with this comment. we are over represented but the fault still lies with us for a sizeable portion of the accidents.

[oldrider]

No, we are being targeted because we are over represented in accident statistics (and we are an easy target to have the cost of our mode of transport increased).

Many motorcyclists believe that we are the 'elite' of road users. I'd like to see some proof that we deserve to consider ourselves so highly.

Sorry Katman, you are way off beam, this is a political circus of distraction!

The end outcome is about dismantling ACC as a no blame "welfare" system and replacing it with a private "insurance" scheme, open to competition!

You are right with respect that some of our behaviour has helped those (AA) who despise us to thrust their questionable statistics into the attack!

The public perception of our behaviour (the basis of your personal quest) has been but a side show ingredient rather than the main event!

Motorcyclists are nothing less than pawn's in the political idealistic game!

[Hiflyer]

I do not for one second buy the "riders only have them self to blame for the proposed ACC hikes". You guys are wrong!

Neither do I, the point here is that we are over represented. The point of the protests aren't to get out of the levies increase completely (From what I gather) it's that they are unfair and we are being targetted to an extent where the increases are higher than what bikers deserve for the accidents they do not cause. not that we are solely to blame

EDIT: Or it could be political as everyone else seems to think... I don't know much about politics, in this country but what is obvious is that Labour will be going for the biker (and anyone else who gets targetted like this) vote next election!!

[Katman]

Motorcyclists are nothing less than pawn's in the political idealistic game!

Yes, a pawn placed there by ourselves.

[MSTRS:Me]

I do not for one second buy the "riders only have them self to blame for the proposed ACC hikes". You guys are wrong!

No, you are wrong.

If we, as a whole, had an exemplary record of public road usage there is no way that we would be facing the situation that we are now.

And I fall somewhere in the middle of those two views. I agree there are those out there who tarnish the image we would perhaps prefer to have, but it is not up to us as a group to 'rein them in'. That is a job for the police. And physics. The crash stats of the loose units may not be flash, but they aren't enough in the big picture to get to where we are at right now.
The recent new laws for boi-racers are a result of a certain type of car driver. But it's not all car drivers that have led to those laws, is it? But those are laws about behaviour. If car drivers were being asked to pay more because of the boi-racer stats, think of the uproar there would be. We motorcyclists are no different.

[Reckless]

Weather I agree or disagree with Katman is irrelevant to the fact that they are monitoring our threads and we don't need to be supporting their arguments on a public forum 1 day before the Bikoi starts!!
They are already quoting the fact that someone suggested putting our accidents down as Cycle accidents! What the hell is this bloody thread gonna do for us! Sheesh!

You are untitled to your opinion Katman but FFS why now????

[Conquiztador]

Yes, a pawn placed there by ourselves.

Weather I agree or disagree with Katman is irrelevant to the fact that they are monitoring our threads and we don't need to be supporting their arguments on a public forum 1 day before the Bikoi starts!!
They are already quoting the fact that someone suggested putting our accidents down as Cycle accidents! What the hell is this bloody thread gonna do for us! Sheesh!

You are untitled to your opinion Katman but FFS why now????

At times I really wish you Katman had stayed with your first hobby of mastrubation.