Proposed new ACC campaign association - a new direction

[bogan]

ACC is heinous - it does not look after many crash victims and forces back to work asap. Girl killed (then revived by ambos) by head on by drug driver... with broken back, head injury (significant brain damage), face had to be rebuilt age 19 - 2 years learning to walk and still drugged up for chronic pain was forced by ACC to take job as waitress on feet all day - in chronic pain.

Not really the best scheme in the world for many.

and private insurance is better? where some can't afford insurance? some aren't even eligible for insurance? and if you are injured by someone who hasn't got insurance or money you aren't likely to ever get a cent. Yeh that sounds way better

what would have happened had the girl been hit by a drunk driver in a private insurance scheme? his insurance wouldnt have paid out cos he was drunk, in a private system she may not have had insurance either

[bogan]

No - idiots aren't like us - don't think of injury consequences as bulletproof. Money drives the reality home. It's not no claims bonus, its having to pay a lot more if you repeatedly have offences/incidents causes risk modification and in some cases finding no insurer (not likely tho as there are high risk insurers in NZ that even insure full on repeat drunks.... at a price

ah what? if you repeatedly have incidents in NZ now you have to pay more, to fix your shit that you have just wrecked, if you get done for anyhting illegal theres a fine, hows increasing the insurance premiums as well gonna make any difference?

[candor]

ah what? if you repeatedly have incidents in NZ now you have to pay more, to fix your shit that you have just wrecked, if you get done for anyhting illegal theres a fine, hows increasing the insurance premiums as well gonna make any difference?

No you don't pay more for repeated incidents - many don't pay fines and just steal the next bike or car.
Sigh - just look to the countries with 3rd party, and the studies showing this reduces injury massively. Thats not really disputed by anyone. Lower chance of injury, lower costs all round.
It can be legislated so someone has to pay, and the State is there as back stop if glitches. Not talking total removal of ACC - just changes and competition.

[FastBikeGear]

Just to bring this thread back on track a little what I proposed in the original post was compulsory COMPULSORY FULL personal injury road user insurance for all road users.

and private insurance is better? where some can't afford insurance?

Well in Australia at least it would appear to be more affordable than our proposed motorcycle levies and as National is apparently courting Australian Insuruance companies we are most likely to end up with something akin to their system

some aren't even eligible for insurance?

There are a number of ways to ensure that everyone but those disqualified from driving are eligble. One way is to have ACC Insurance operating as Kiwibank back stop to provide insurance when the private companies won't ....and also to set a competitive premiums in the way that Kiwi bank exerts some limited control on mortgage rates.

Guys I sure hope that when we announce motorcyclists support of National's plans for privatising ACC in order to get a fairer system with reduced costs for motorcyclists they aren't going to react as negatively as you.

Bogan I still can't see your P.A.I.N membership donation in my bank account? Are you sure you are serious about wanting to be vice spokesman?

By the way can someone please come up with a better (more positive sounding) acronym than P.A.I.N (Privatise ACC Insurance Now)?

[bogan]

No you don't pay more for repeated incidents - many don't pay fines and just steal the next bike or car.
Sigh - just look to the countries with 3rd party, and the studies showing this reduces injury massively. Thats not really disputed by anyone. Lower chance of injury, lower costs all round.
It can be legislated so someone has to pay, and the State is there as back stop if glitches. Not talking total removal of ACC - just changes and competition.

But those who don't pay fines and steal cars will pay compulsory insurance? Can you provide some links to these studies?

Well in Australia at least it would appear to be more affordable than our proposed motorcycle levies and as National is apparently courting Australian Insuruance companies we are most likely to end up with something akin to their system

you cant compare private insurance with the proposed levies, they have been deliberately set illogically high to undermine the ACC system. Compare private with the original ACC system, as this is what we need to choose between.

Guys I sure hope that when we announce motorcyclists support of National's plans for privatising ACC in order to get a fairer system with reduced costs for motorcyclists they aren't going to react as negatively as you.

Hang about, if motorcyclists are reacting so negatively toward this, why would you announce that we all support privatisation?

Bogan I still can't see your P.A.I.N membership donation in my bank account? Are you sure you are serious about wanting to be vice spokesman?

sorry there was a mix up at the bank with account numbers etc, in order for them to put the money through properly you need to deposit a clearance fee into my account which they will use to backtrack the total of both, a nice round hundy would be ideal they told me

[NONONO]

Just to bring this thread back on track a little what I proposed in the original post was compulsory third party insurance.



Well in Australia at least it would appear to be more affordable than our proposed motorcycle levies and as National is apparently courting Australian Insuruance companies we are most likely to end up with something akin to their system



Guys I sure hope that when we announce motorcyclists support of National's plans for privatising ACC in order to get a fairer system with reduced costs for motorcyclists they aren't going to react as negatively as you.

Bogan I still can't see your P.A.I.N membership donation in my bank account? Are you sure you are serious about wanting to be vice spokesman?

By the way can someone please come up with a better (more positive sounding) acronym than P.A.I.N (Privatise ACC Insurance Now)?

How about D.I.C.K.
Duped Into Corporate Kaos.....

[oldrider]

Again: To be a "biker" you only need to own/ride/have an interest in bikes. nothing else matters. Your political conviction does not come in to it, or your occupation, if you are employed or on a benefit, you are a police or a crim.

So we can realistically only agree on one thing: The levies are NOT to go up.

Apart from that...

I agree with you CQ, although politically, I am not against abolishing ACC but while ACC exists it should be in it's true intended form "No Blame welfare"!

As the Yoda said, "it is, or it is not" and National are being deceitful on this issue by trying to steal second base without taking their foot off first!

I protested against the bullshit (blame) price hikes, they go against the spirit of the ACC act, as it stands!

We are probably paying far more for the current ACC scheme than we would if we held our own Accident insurance!

And we have no right to sue the bastards who smash us to bits while exercising their cheaper road rights!

Closest to where I stand politically, is here! http://www.libertarianz.org.nz/?libzpr=615 Socialism is not the way forward it is the way backwards!

[Pixie]

And then the councils (or Transit) will be sued cos the roads are substandard

If this was the case ,we wouldn't have to put up with the dangerous condition roads are allowed to be in

[Pixie]

exactly, and the thing is, a lot of incidents are just accidents, genuine mistakes, is there really any fault that needs to be placed in such cases?

Bullshit!Very few accidents are accidents

[avgas]

We need to urgently introduce COMPULSORY FULL personal injury road user insurance for all road users.

Errr no we don't. Since when were all injuries caused on the road.
Fuck man most injuries are off the road - but the sad fact of the matter was that road users were easier to charge.

Rugby players, knife users, cooking wives, young children, home handymen.....all don't have to drive to make me pay for their expenses.

You are barking up the wrong tree - and the cat is now out of the bag

[avgas]

Just to bring this thread back on track a little what I proposed in the original post was compulsory third party insurance.

For vehicle against vehicle I completely agree - but when you take injuries into the matter then ONLY road users cover ONLY road injuries.
Why should I pay for some knob to play thugby or go boxing? Why should I pay for someone elses kids who aren't getting looked after?

[avgas]

and private insurance is better? where some can't afford insurance? some aren't even eligible for insurance? and if you are injured by someone who hasn't got insurance or money you aren't likely to ever get a cent. Yeh that sounds way better

what would have happened had the girl been hit by a drunk driver in a private insurance scheme? his insurance wouldnt have paid out cos he was drunk, in a private system she may not have had insurance either

There are ways around this - personally I would rather everyone pays a set amount each year, you don't pay, you die.
We live in a society where if you can't pay your power then they set-up bullshit payment schemes - so I think your target market will be unaffected.

But it would add transparency to a very corrupt looking system.

[avgas]

Hang about, if motorcyclists are reacting so negatively toward this, why would you announce that we all support privatisation?

Its very simple from my point of view. If they become private - they HAVE to compete with what else it out there.

My private health insurance is around the $600 mark - not the $1000's proposed by ACC. Let the market decide what health care is worth. Not some fat govt cats

[Genestho]

The ACC site does say one in three accidents occur in the home - however.

Playing devils advocate - I can't see anything wrong with a conversation like this, really - because it is a distinct possibility and always has been, to ignore, is to go blind.

The reality is the 'people' have ranked compulsary third party insurance as number one priority in Road Safety. So how does that impact ACC?


I don't know the answers, but I do know that sometimes objectivity is our friend.

[Squiggles]

If this was the case ,we wouldn't have to put up with the dangerous condition roads are allowed to be in

An interesting one for sure, you'd presumably have to show they were negligent or something to that effect? and not that you weren't going too fast for the conditions

My private health insurance is around the $600 mark - not the $1000's proposed by ACC. Let the market decide what health care is worth. Not some fat govt cats

I'd be checking ma policy but i bet your private health insurance doesnt cover you for accidents / anything covered by ACC