Approach to the future of our cause

[drummer]

"They" (and I am unsure as to who "They" are... the Nats... ACC... Nicksta and his advisers.. the public) will not listen or have to pay attention to a few KB members talking of disruption and "War".

Dusrupting peoples lives IS NOT going to win us the so called war.. good grief... use your heads.. politics is what will win us the fight.. I have said time and time again that the way to fight party policy (and NEVER forget this IS our fight... you want to fight the whole Nat government... I hate to say this... you're dreaming) is to attack the party thinking from the weakest link... firstly..,. do you really believe for one tiny moment in your talk of disruption "shutting down cities" and public annoyance that Joe and Mary Blow will think "Oh gosh... them bike riders are right... NO they think we have won a concession... and we should be grateful.. It may be the wrong perception.. but who gives a dam about that? Its THEIR perception.

Also re the talk about unions joing our fight and marching with us.. oh give me a break... union membership is at it's lowest in years. Plus the Nats don't care about unions.. why? Because they all vote Labour anyhow! Also... want to alienate half the bikers in NZ... simple.. get unions involved... no.. this is OUR fight... let them do their thing... and have their flag waving banner bearing little shouting marches in the rain outside some place... but ever seen the numbers of people in them.. and talked with them... no Nats at all.. and numbers decreasing all the time.. the last one I saw was a group of drenched men outside some factory in South Auckland saying let us in... let us in... great protest... and not very intelligent... from what I know it failed... the factory was shut up next time and the lease up...

Fundementally what we as KB passionate motorcyclists need to do is to firstly convince ALL.. well as many as we can.. (and thats a big task) riders that we the motorcycle and scooter riders of NZ need to be united in a common cause... bring the groups together.. right now I know people who ride who just shake their heads when all this war and disruption is mentioned.. I was at a staff Christmas function last night.. spent half the night explaining the reality of our plight to three guys and a lady who rode bikes... but who never protested or even knew about any actions... strange huh... NO... but to people here it would seem strange... I mean ... lets see 5000 bikes at Welly... about 100 at the important Smith meeting in Auckland... how many rego'ed bikes in NZ? A lot more I know that for sure. I also know ALL of the people I spoke with were surprised that I, a former Nat exec branch member was unhappy... and ALL of them were Nat voters.

I even see here an attack and name calling of scooter riders... give it a break... attacking the fastest growing sector of NZ transport and some very intelligent people aint going to win us those people...

There you go... some of you want war... disruption...personal attacks against Smith.. thats an uneducated illinformed way to change policy... We at the moment are lets face it are a small voting block whose members mostly are left leaning... lets get real... However.. many many many motorcyclists like myself are not left leaning... I actually like John Key as a leader... but.. and this is the crux... a few policies including this major one re ACC have me really pissed off.. for every one of "me" there are huge numbers out there from all political angles who are the same. They won't and don't support a small group of bikers who want to disrupt traffic, "close down cities", cause mayhem and annoy the great working public... these people mostly drive cars to work... I do... to carry my guitars drums and amps etc.. try that on a bike... then there are those who ride scooters to look "cool"... Guys in K road, little chickie babes who's miniskirts blow up at any speed... great look... but totally unsafe... just go round Tamaki drive on a hot summers day and see what I mean.

Do you really think that traffic disruptions, threats, declarations of war and involving left leaning unions in chanting walks down city streets is going to change the (popular.. look at the polls!!) governments policies..? You must be dreaming.

No folks... to attack a cause... stealth organisation of resources and intelligence is required... in modern warfare even... its not about dropping bombs on everyone.. its about SMART bombing and stealth..

So what do we do?... I have started a new thread (Approach to the future of our cause) to discuss this and put this post as first post... where am I coming from? I have been involved with politics and political change for nearly 30 years... 17 years in Australia.. I saw the Hanson thing happen before my very eyes... I was close to the action and didn't agree with her at all... Together with a dedicated group we totally changed the face of politics in an area of nearly 200,000 people.. and a wider region of more than a million and brought change Nationally in certain areas...

I know the National party here.. I know how they work and the structures they use... war by disruption and fuelled by emotional anger is a way to failure.. I can PROMISE you that... however.. if you want to call it war do so... but I call it pressure... put unbelieveable pressure on the weakest links by as great a number of ordinary motorcyclists and scooter riders we can muster... some of us need to embrace the concept of working within the system... and at times outiside when we face a brick wall... but if you think we are facing a brick wall now and the only way is to break it down, then sorry... you WILL NOT achieve the end result. The wall will grow far larger.

We need a goverment who thinks its very own supporters will turn... will leave the party membership... stop the donations, and essentually make the next election a tough one... the biggest thing political parties need apart from voters getting them elected is people who give their time assisting in things... putting up signs, door knocking etc... branches have a little competition within electorates to sign up the most members... and get the most money... like I said... do you really honestly think scaremongering by carpet bombing is the answer?

Lets discuss and plan a co-ordinated strong intelligent effective mature approach to our problem... lets come up with a strong co-ordinated argument that gets as many motorcycle riding and scooter riding people on board... lets attack with stealth and a groudswell of people who will eventually convince this government riding high in the polls that the ACC levies are unfair, unworkable and unjustified.. Lts convince this government and it's allies like ACT, United future and the Maori party that it will be if anything a minority unworkable government at the very most after the next election IF it continues its present policy lines.. and for us thats ACC levies and dare I say it the climate change issues regarding the advantage of people riding bikes.. lets get the people who matter onside by intelligent co-ordinated public debate about our nation's future and a system that has worked well for a good deal of time... let's make John Judge feel uneasy... and give the government no choice but to sack him... look at his failures... there are too many to list.

Who here wants that?

Or who here wants to disrupt, annoy and declare war on the majoirity..and truly believes it is the way...? Who wants to confront angry car drivers who just want to get to work? Who here wants to get scooterists offside by calling them names... ?

Not me!

Peter (Drummer on KB)

[Sis]

I hear you .
I am with you on this.
Just waiting quietly in the wings, ready for the next step.

[drummer]

I hear you .
I am with you on this.
Just waiting quietly in the wings, ready for the next step.

Good on you... lets start the actions... pm me we need a co-ordinated approach from people who want to use intelligence over disruption and getting people offside...

Thanks

Peter

[Headbanger]

So......No night sky lit up by burning cities?






Uh....Not I read your post, far to many words.

[drummer]

So......No night sky lit up by burning cities?

Didn't work for Germany and it caused a mess for America and the Soviets after WWll.. so no!

Uh....Not I read your post, far to many words.

Try and find the time... it was meant to be serious and a call for people to think... I am sure you will find some good ideas in it..

Thanks

Peter

[NONONO]

Drummer, there you go again you mad bastard.
Have a look at the ACC Futures Coalition site and see just which organizations are involved in the fight....
See the young Nats there? Or the Round Table?
Jeeeeezus!

[drummer]

Drummer, there you go again you mad bastard.
Have a look at the ACC Futures Coalition site and see just which organizations are involved in the fight....
See the young Nats there? Or the Round Table?
Jeeeeezus!

I will check... but I doubt the young Nats are... anyhow... the Young Nats and the round table all could have riders...

This fight for me is about bikers and scooter riders... yes... we as a group need to embrace organisations like this but first we need to get ourselves united... stop declaring ar on the public... don't you agree with that?

Peter

[bogan]

tldr, maybe some summary bullet points would be benificial

Bits i skim read show you are against disruptive protest. To get public on-side would be the best way obviously, but if that don't work what other options do we have? keep trying, or give up and cause disruption are the only ones I can think of

[drummer]

Anyone interested in getting people who ride but not KBikers or protest participants in the past... regester your interest here..

P

[MSTRS:Me]

... stop declaring war on the public...

Where did anyone say that? The public are not and never will be the target. Collateral damage, maybe. Obviously, it is unfortunate, but unavoidable IF protests move to a more 'earthy' militant style.
It is all about making those pricks in National take note....
There are many ways of making that happen. Yours is just as valid as 'rioting' in the streets.

[Headbanger]

Try and find the time... it was meant to be serious and a call for people to think... I am sure you will find some good ideas in it..

Thanks

Chances are slim, I can think for myself and have no idea who you think you are.

I'll wait and see what the likes of Stoney, Mom, Nasty, Les etc etc suggest, and I'll decide whether to be part of it or not.

[mikeey01]

politics is what will win us the fight.. I have said time and time again that the way to fight party policy (and NEVER forget this IS our fight... you want to fight the whole Nat government... I hate to say this... you're dreaming) (Drummer on KB)

Spring box tour comes to mind here and that political approach you talk of, worked a treat aye. Yeah right!

You keep that fight going your end, which up to this point has been a huge success and on top of this lets see how they like a taste with the gloves off for a bit!
Never under estimate what resources are available too and how much this can achieve.

Peter, what "they" are trying to do is bull shit, you and I both know it.
Keep up the good fight and just watch things get ramped up a tad eh?.

[drummer]

tldr, maybe some summary bullet points would be benificial

Bits i skim read show you are against disruptive protest. To get public on-side would be the best way obviously, but if that don't work what other options do we have? keep trying, or give up and cause disruption are the only ones I can think of

OK.. fair comment but please read the post and give the whole idea some thought.

I don't think we will get Joe onside so to speak as a banner waving supporter of bikes and scooters... but we don't want them OFFSIDE!! theres a difference... angry people with no organised approach are effective in putting up walls not tearing them down... why... because there are a minority of us at the moment... even amongst riders.. what e first need to do is get all riders e can onside then we start a campaign that will make Smith Judge and the policy of funding others from OUR levies look pathetic... e need to get the Joe and Jill Public who do ride but aren't in our ranks currently to be onside... and we do want to make Nat supporters who ride think about what their party is doing... and hopefully ensure they put pressure on their own leaders..

We need to start somewhere... so far.. I agree with les Mason who whilst not agreeing the changes were great did say that we had some effect... and we did it in a short time... we now have time to take breath and make our numbers bigger... that to me is our first goal.

Peter

[mikeey01]

Politics is what will win us the fight.. I have said time and time again that the way to fight party policy (and NEVER forget this IS our fight... you want to fight the whole Nat government... I hate to say this... you're dreaming) (Drummer on KB)

Spring box tour comes to mind here and the above approach worked a treat, yeah right!

You keep the fight going your way, which up to this point has been a huge success and on top of this lets see how they like a taste with the gloves off for abit!

Peter, you and they have sadly estimated how many options are available to the gloves off group, which is steadily growing.

I know the National party here.. I know how they work and the structures they use... war by disruption and fuelled by emotional anger is a way to failure.. I can PROMISE you that... however.. if you want to call it war do so... but I call it pressure... put unbelieveable pressure on the weakest links by as great a number of ordinary motorcyclists and scooter riders we can muster... some of us need to embrace the concept of working within the system... and at times outiside when we face a brick wall... but if you think we are facing a brick wall now and the only way is to break it down, then sorry... you WILL NOT achieve the end result. The wall will grow far larger.

Then give it all you've got!
As for brick walls, it's easy to smash them down, been done in the past and can easily be done again.

[BMWST?]

"They" (and I am unsure as to who "They" are... the Nats... ACC... Nicksta and his advisers.. the public) will not listen or have to pay attention to a few KB members talking of disruption and "War".

you are partly right,we need actions from within,but we DO need the "public" part as well.That keeps people in the news,makes people think "hmm whtas this about,catches the attention of the scooterists and non kb people...