Approach to the future of our cause

[drummer]

Spring box tour comes to mind here and that political above approach worked a treat, yeah right!

You keep that fight going your end, which up to this point has been a huge success and on top of this lets see how they like a taste with the gloves off for a bit! Never under estimate what resources are available too and how much this can achieve.

Peter, what "they" are trying to do is bull shit, you and I both know it.
Keep up the good fight and just watch things get ramped up a tad eh?.

The springbok tour protests (I was there) was in numbers supported by a if not a majority.. a very large perxcentage of the public..

Thanks for the statement about success,,, I know and aren't unrealistic that some will want to fight and disrupt... NZ is a democracy and we have the right to protest... I am merely saying... ok... heres my idea.. its on the table... if people like it... then lets discuss tactics...

I totally agree what "they" are doing and have done before the Nats is bullshit... we always paid more under Labour too... I for one never saw that as fair... its not about for me at least one party or another... its about fundemental fairness and equity, leading to a policy change that embraces those things

Thanks

Peter

[bogan]

OK.. fair comment but please read the post and give the whole idea some thought.

sorry but i really cant be assed, it waffles on, and is repetitive.

I don't think we will get Joe onside so to speak as a banner waving supporter of bikes and scooters... but we don't want them OFFSIDE!! theres a difference... angry people with no organised approach are effective in putting up walls not tearing them down... why... because there are a minority of us at the moment... even amongst riders.. what e first need to do is get all riders e can onside then we start a campaign that will make Smith Judge and the policy of funding others from OUR levies look pathetic... e need to get the Joe and Jill Public who do ride but aren't in our ranks currently to be onside... and we do want to make Nat supporters who ride think about what their party is doing... and hopefully ensure they put pressure on their own leaders..

We need to start somewhere... so far.. I agree with les Mason who whilst not agreeing the changes were great did say that we had some effect... and we did it in a short time... we now have time to take breath and make our numbers bigger... that to me is our first goal.

Peter

I agree with most of what you have written, but whats the game plan gonna be then? saying we should get people on side could be like saying we should get S Myth to turn into an honest bloke! We need stratergy, timeframe, acceptable results, and contingencies.

We are having a park up protest in palmy and flyer/petition distribution next weekend, so I'll be much better educated to public opinion then.

[NONONO]

OK.. fair comment but please read the post and give the whole idea some thought.

I don't think we will get Joe onside so to speak as a banner waving supporter of bikes and scooters... but we don't want them OFFSIDE!! theres a difference... angry people with no organised approach are effective in putting up walls not tearing them down... why... because there are a minority of us at the moment... even amongst riders.. what e first need to do is get all riders e can onside then we start a campaign that will make Smith Judge and the policy of funding others from OUR levies look pathetic... e need to get the Joe and Jill Public who do ride but aren't in our ranks currently to be onside... and we do want to make Nat supporters who ride think about what their party is doing... and hopefully ensure they put pressure on their own leaders..

We need to start somewhere... so far.. I agree with les Mason who whilst not agreeing the changes were great did say that we had some effect... and we did it in a short time... we now have time to take breath and make our numbers bigger... that to me is our first goal.

Peter

Peter
You're the only one alienating sections of the community. You're diatribe against unions is offensive to many. You may not be a unionist but so what, others may be.
Try and keep a sense of perspective.

[MSTRS:Me]

I don't think we will get Joe onside so to speak as a banner waving supporter of bikes and scooters...

Of course we won't. But what we do want is to be the catalyst that gets them off their collective arses ON THEIR OWN BEHALF, and we provide the medium for them to stage their own protest alongside us.

[drummer]

Where did anyone say that? The public are not and never will be the target. Collateral damage, maybe. Obviously, it is unfortunate, but unavoidable IF protests move to a more 'earthy' militant style.
It is all about making those pricks in National take note....
There are many ways of making that happen. Yours is just as valid as 'rioting' in the streets.

If you disrupt traffic, "shut down cities" etc.. you are like the truckies did inadvertantly declaring ar on the public

Rioting in the streets... remember the Queen Street Riots...

Peter

[MSTRS:Me]

If you disrupt traffic, "shut down cities" etc.. you are like the truckies did inadvertantly declaring ar on the public

Rioting in the streets... remember the Queen Street Riots...

Peter

I'm not condoning those actions...but some are, and they do have a point. Look what happens in France...I know we're not France, but militant disruptive actions DO get results.
As far as 'rioting' goes...is that not what JK said we were doing?

[James Deuce]

One wonders who is working for whom "from the inside".

[drummer]

I'm not condoning those actions...but some are, and they do have a point. Look what happens in France...I know we're not France, but militant disruptive actions DO get results.
As far as 'rioting' goes...is that not what JK said we were doing?

If he did then I would be surprised if it were not an over zealous staffers remarks... I don't know about that.. but you and I know they eren't riots... yes sometimes those actions get results but genrally only when supported in kind by a large percntile of the public... currently we don't really have that... nor even a major portion of riders either... which as said should be our first prime focus...

Thanks

Peter

[mikeey01]

I totally agree what "they" are doing and have done before the Nats is bullshit... we always paid more under Labour too... I for one never saw that as fair... its not about for me at least one party or another... its about fundemental fairness and equity, leading to a policy change that embraces those things

Thanks

Peter

Then you will agree that pressure, be it extreme or not and in many and varied ways does work then!

The motorcycling community has spoken and continues to speak on this issue, but no one is listening, or even understanding, seems discussions have stopped and the shutters have gone up (brick walls as you put it) then the speak gets louder and louder, eventually giving way to a gloves off approach.

[MSTRS:Me]

If he did then I would be surprised if it were not an over zealous staffers remarks...

Words from his own mouth in a telephone interview he had when overseas and just prior to him going to Copenhagen. Search...it's on here somewhere. In fact here it is

[GSL]

Its time to get real. Warm fuzzies so far have failed. No point in doing more of the same yet expecting a different result. I am surprised that the marshmellow protesters brains have not clicked into reallity yet. I support shutting down Wellington to get the strongest possible message accross.

[mikeey01]

If he did then I would be surprised if it were not an over zealous staffers remarks... I don't know about that.. but you and I know they eren't riots... yes sometimes those actions get results but genrally only when supported in kind by a large percntile of the public... currently we don't really have that... nor even a major portion of riders either... which as said should be our first prime focus...

Thanks

Peter

Hey fella, do not for one minute under-estimate what's coming..
If riots get results then so be it!

[drummer]

Then you will agree that pressure, be it extreme or not and in many and varied ways does work then!

The motorcycling community has spoken and continues to speak on this issue, but no one is listening, or even understanding, seems discussions have stopped and the shutters have gone up (brick walls as you put it) then the speak gets louder and louder, eventually giving way to a gloves off approach.

Pressure can work... however it needs to embrace some principles of the fight.. the public factor is the largest... not to get them against us...

The motorcycling community as such hasn't spoken.. just a percentage... thats one of my points and others have mentioned it too... too many riders have done nothing or worse don't even care or realise the necessity for a change of policy...

People are listening but theres not enough people talking... thats the problem... getting the majoirty offside as in the truckies blocade gets people talking against us... and we do not want the majoity against us. Why... because the majority (unfortunately) of NZ'ers don't ride or care about bikes and scooters.

Peter

[mikeey01]

Pressure in strategic places will work without getting anyone else off side.
I am talking legal here, when it comes to illegal then I'll have a re-think.

[drummer]

Its time to get real. Warm fuzzies so far have failed. No point in doing more of the same yet expecting a different result. I am surprised that the marshmellow protesters brains have not clicked into reallity yet. I support shutting down Wellington to get the strongest possible message accross.

Soft? Marshmellow? Give me a break mate! I am talking about a kind of war as well.. if you really want to call it that... but it aint a marshmellow soft approach in fact its caniving deceatful and underhanded... but... it will change policy and NOT cause the public to fight against us... good grief do you want the majority against us... up to know e have had them with us... Like has been said here the fight isn't over b ut the fight must now change... if you think for one tiny moment my ideas and past experience hasn't involved nasty tactics... you are wrong... but... they never get the majority offside... therein is the difference

Peter