Rider training or ATGATT. Which is better?

[Scuba_Steve]

I would say it depends on the training,
Most training I've seen will teach you "lawful" riding/driving not safe riding/driving & that in itself can be more dangourous than no training at all. The best trainer in my opinion is your dad (if a biker too) or an experienced biker you know & trust.

So I'd say to put the money towards some pants, some wet weather, winter & summer gear (which ever is needed) & practice on "dead" roads for awhile until confident & ready for light traffic.

[quickbuck]

I would say it depends on the training,
Most training I've seen will teach you "lawful" riding/driving not safe riding/driving & that in itself can be more dangourous than no training at all. The best trainer in my opinion is your dad (if a biker too) or an experienced biker you know & trust.

So I'd say to put the money towards some pants, some wet weather, winter & summer gear (which ever is needed) & practice on "dead" roads for awhile until confident & ready for light traffic.

Would like to see the training you have "Seen".

So, you say there is a market for "What your dad would teach you" style of training?
Not having a go, just interested in what sort of training schools people would benefit the new motorcyclist.

For what it is worth, I think the prerequisite for getting your L plates is seriously lacking.... Okay, it assesses that the student has actually ridden before, BUT I feel there needs to be more! Much more!

[FROSTY:Me]

That begs another question.
Who is a lesser danger to themselves.
A L plate rider fully kitted with 3 hours riding experience and no training OR a rider of 10years (or greater) experience riding in shorts and tee shirt?

[MSTRS:Me]

That begs another question.
Who is a lesser danger to themselves.
A L plate rider fully kitted with 3 hours riding experience and no training OR a rider of 10years (or greater) experience riding in shorts and tee shirt?

I think we know the answer to that, young man.

[cowboyz]

just because your not wearing all the gear doesnt unbalance the bike enough to make it magically fall over. Yes good gear is a damn good idea. No one is going to deny that. And speaking for myself, I wear full leathers because I know that when I get into some of those back roads I *am* going to push the envelope and I *may* fuck it up. I dont wear full leather because I am going to crash or have the intention of crashing.
You missed a group too. I would say the 2 main groups that are most likely to crash are born again middle age bikers who did it all 20 years ago on machines with a tenth of the horsepower and young guys who have been riding 2-3 years without incident and their confidence levels are at an all time high. Newbie riders tend to be very very caucious and experienced riders - well they have experience which counts for alot

[imdying]

Definitely gear first. Even with training you can potentially fall off, in fact nothing can prevent you from potentially falling off. Sometimes falling off isn't your fault or even avoidable; ask anyone who has been rear ended at a set of traffic lights.

[vifferman]

The thing is, even with training, it takes a while to get the skills and experience to be a good rider - there are no shortcuts. So, while I would agree that both lessons and gear are required, if it's a toss-up because they can't afford both at once, then I'd go for gear first. This also tends to mitigate the risks associated with the unexpected happening, like something falling off a truck, a pedestrian leaping into your path, or whatever.

However, no-one should go out on the road with no training at all.

[Waxxa]

take the lil' johnny up to muriwai. You cant beat having a 'dirt' background to help your riding for good.

my ol' man started me riding in the dunes and forests (I was 11yr) and I will swear this has given me at least, a solid background of riding skills.

[quickbuck]

take the lil' johnny up to muriwai. You cant beat having a 'dirt' background to help your riding for good.

my ol' man started me riding in the dunes and forests (I was 11yr) and I will swear this has given me at least, a solid background of riding skills.

Yeah, I'm starting to listen to guys who keep saying this.....

Thing is I started riding real young. Things that really come second nature to me are a mystery to some people..... People who have only really ridden on the road.

Now, I'm not saying there aren't any good riders who have had no off road experience, BUT some of our very best started in the kitty litter so to speak (Helps them not to end up there in the future too....).

Big names like, Eddie Lawson, Gary McCoy, Colin Edwards, Aaron Slight.... Hell, the list is actually VERY long..... and there are many who may rate higher that i haven't even thought of...

Now, a little background... Once (pre teens), I could actually ride the bike sideways (like full opposite lock, and that was a lot on a CT90), feet up, all day in the snow without it even freaking me out.
Okay, took a bit of practice to get to that point.
It is only lately that I have learnt not to worry if the back steps out on the road bike.

[imdying]

And the best ever started on scooters

[Squiggles]

A L plate rider fully kitted with 3 hours riding experience and no training OR a rider of 10years (or greater) experience riding in shorts and tee shirt?

(over)confidence vs noobiness?

[Mikkel]

That begs another question.
Who is a lesser danger to themselves.
A L plate rider fully kitted with 3 hours riding experience and no training OR a rider of 10years (or greater) experience riding in shorts and tee shirt?

Depends on the individual. If the L-plate rider is equipped with a brain and a sense of self-preservation, he could easily be safer than some gimp who've just managed to beat the odds for 10+ years.

Gear is a funny thing. It'll keep your skin on your body - but it won't save you from getting crushed by a truck.
If you get riding instruction from the get go and are taught to take the risks involved serious, then I'd say you'd be better off getting instruction first. But we all know, instruction (or mentoring) does not necessarily cost anything.

[p.dath]

That begs another question.
Who is a lesser danger to themselves.
A L plate rider fully kitted with 3 hours riding experience and no training OR a rider of 10years (or greater) experience riding in shorts and tee shirt?

The problem is, other road users also pose a danger to the rider.

If you define "danger" as the probability of having an accident, and if you do, to be able to walk away from it ... I would say the L-plate rider has the lesser danger.

The L-plate rider is much more likely to have an accident, but stand a greater chance of walking away from it than someone who has no protective clothing.

[OutForADuck]

Obviously BOTH.

But given the choice.. the gear first.. because you'll need it to do any decent training anyway + Training helps you stay on its not full proof.

As for the second question, in my experience unfortunately there is little relationship between the number of years you have been riding and your likelihood of NOT falling off.

I guess apart from good ol' odds over time there is that little saying practice of perfection makes you perfect, but most of us have years of bad habits and just doing things because that's how our mates did it.

[avgas]

You cant beat having a 'dirt' background to help your riding for good.

Seconded. Dirt is the training king.
I also recommend car drivers do this also.
Riding on the dirt teaches you so many things that save your skin - like position and posture. So often I see riders hit gravel and stuff on the road and they freak out. Likewise car drivers who don't know how to manage a car that is sliding out.
Going to teach the misses manual (car) this summer. You can guarantee that will be on the dirt.

So Tony I would recommend some good gear - the training will come part from you, and part of it will come naturally.