Thank you Slippery Nick, please can we have some more?

[oldrider]

And who is going to employ this professional lobby group?
And when employed, professional lobby groups become "fettered" by the ideology of the employing agency.
If BRONZ had the financial capital it could employ just such an agency. But without a large membership it can not.

This will have to stop, I find myself in agreeing with NONONO again!

BRONZ, IMHO, is the only national (motorcycle) body suitable and anywhere near ready to employ a professional lobby group such as has been suggested.

[James Deuce]

This will have to stop, I find myself in agreeing with NONONO again!

BRONZ, IMHO, is the only national (motorcycle) body suitable and anywhere near ready to employ a professional lobby group such as has been suggested.

BRONZ would be one of the groups yes. Don't forget the Dealers and Distributors who arguably have a bigger stake, MNZ, the various racing clubs, etc, etc, and dare I say, NZ's only anti-motorcycling motorcycle club Ulysses.

However, the Lobby group needs to be independent and sufficiently flexible of mind to challenge Government policy in ways that don't appear to have anything to do with motorcycling at face value. BRONZ still doesn't have sufficient membership mass to be the sole employer of a motorcycling lobby group.

VMCC has a bigger membership in Wellington than BRONZ, which is why I mentioned them earlier. You guys who keep talking about joining, really do need to.

[StoneY]

BRONZ would be one of the groups yes.

VMCC has a bigger membership in Wellington than BRONZ, which is why I mentioned them earlier. You guys who keep talking about joining, really do need to.

Exactly JD well written as always

BRONZ is powerless if people only TALK about joining

There is plans to bring the National panel back to life...more on that in future, meantime folks get on the website or get in touch with local BRONZ branch, your 20$ goes a LONG way to building the organization back up to the strength we need

[Bald Eagle]

Exactly JD well written as always

BRONZ is powerless if people only TALK about joining

There is plans to bring the National panel back to life...more on that in future, meantime folks get on the website or get in touch with local BRONZ branch, your 20$ goes a LONG way to building the organization back up to the strength we need

visit bronz web site download membership form and send to us at bronzwellington at gmail.com

[NONONO]

You want me to join again?
Spose there is nothing really stopping me having 2 memberships....
And we all know why BRONZ Wellington currently has a small membership, but positive it will grow.
This really is a major part of the coming battle, having a dedicated organisation that we are all part of to fight the cause.

[oldrider]

BRONZ would be one of the groups yes. Don't forget the Dealers and Distributors who arguably have a bigger stake, MNZ, the various racing clubs, etc, etc, and dare I say, NZ's only anti-motorcycling motorcycle club Ulysses.

However, the Lobby group needs to be independent and sufficiently flexible of mind to challenge Government policy in ways that don't appear to have anything to do with motorcycling at face value. BRONZ still doesn't have sufficient membership mass to be the sole employer of a motorcycling lobby group.

VMCC has a bigger membership in Wellington than BRONZ, which is why I mentioned them earlier. You guys who keep talking about joining, really do need to.

True! I overlooked the dealership strength, how remiss of me!

Have to agree about Ulysses national body but I have to disagree regards the local North Otago branch, they are OK.

Unfortunately one can't belong to the local group without being a national member, so

Even BRONZ is a loose unit as all the areas are independent of each other!

Uniting motorcyclists has been described on KB as like herding cats and I think that is a true fit!

Maybe we might have something to thank NS for in the long run!

[NONONO]

And I'm gonna have to have therapy if I keep agreeing with you John..
But BRONZ is the only organisation that could represent ALL the diverse parts of the community.
Ulysses represent a certain section, as does VMCC and the dealers.
I would love to see them have representative members at each BRONZ local and then at National level, as BRONZ members.

[James Deuce]

And I'm gonna have to have therapy if I keep agreeing with you John..
But BRONZ is the only organisation that could represent ALL the diverse parts of the community.
Ulysses represent a certain section, as does VMCC and the dealers.
I would love to see them have representative members at each BRONZ local and then at National level, as BRONZ members.

BRONZ doesn't represent all motorcyclists, not by any stretch of the imagination. BRONZ Auckland and Les in particular did a stunning job to pull off the BIKOI in the timeframe they did, with the numbers they did and to get any result from it was a bonus.

[NONONO]

Hmmm. never said they do mate, said they could.

[James Deuce]

They can only ever represent those bikers who believe they have Rights.

[NONONO]

They can only ever represent those bikers who believe they have Rights.

Now that would be nice, but not necessarily so.
Many organisations "represent' members who have little interest or knowledge of what the organisation is doing below the surface.
BRONZ is capable of educating members as to it's aims (they only have to turn up at meetings to find out). Can't see the problem.

[oldrider]

They can only ever represent those bikers who believe they have Rights.

Despite it's apparent or claimed failings, if BRONZ had not been in existence, who or what other organisation would have been there to pick up and carry our cause when NS began his errant lying onslaught!

BRONZ is there now ready and waiting, begging for membership and support and "we" the ordinary motorcyclist's are desperate for representation, surely a match made in (motorcycle) heaven!

Sure it may need some fine tuning to make it an exact fit but at least it is better than having to start from scratch!

I for one am thankful for the guardians who have slugged away to keep it (BRONZ) alive during the lean times, when we had everything we wanted without threat of losing it!

How times have quickly changed within the space of one election, out of the frying pan right smack into the fire, for motorcyclists anyway!

[James Deuce]

Now that would be nice, but not necessarily so.
Many organisations "represent' members who have little interest or knowledge of what the organisation is doing below the surface.
BRONZ is capable of educating members as to it's aims (they only have to turn up at meetings to find out). Can't see the problem.

I'm uncomfortable belonging to an organisation that claims "rights" on behalf of its members. I'm uncomfortable with an organisation that uses the term "rights" in its title. I'm uncomfortable with an organisation that uses the term "rights" in its charter. There's no "problem". I've experienced first hand and personally the negative results of allowing an organisation to run geographically separate chapters and then expecting National consensus.

Personally I'd prefer that chapter structure dismantled and a National organisation taking its place with a paid executive, rather than thousands of dollars going in separate directions without a cohesive financial plan. The BIKOI has informed bikers in general about how the Government works and that knowledge needs to be collated and used as leverage for future actions.

[NONONO]

OK JD I get your point, not saying I agree but understand.
Personally I am in favor of regional organisations, I like the notion of participatory democracy. I'm sure that when the national body gets up and running it will be much more in line with your ideas while retaining a strong regional accent.
What is your issue with "rights" though? If you've been into it on another thread just point me in the direction.
Surely all organisations lobby for members rights in one way or another? Is it just that it's explicit in this case?
As far as I can see BRONZ is very much focused on rights AND responsibilities, maybe it should re brand as BRRONZ?

[James Deuce]

It's rhetoric belonging to a bypassed dialectic. It makes policy wonks giggle and allows the mental comfort of "knowing" you are addressing a relic.

It's a subtle point and appears hopelessly academic. Unfortunately a lot of policy wonks ARE hopeless academics.