Roadcraft

**R6_kid:Me** · 4th January 2010, 18:41

After travelling to the Street Racing in Wanganui on boxing day in the car for the last two years I decided that I'd man up and take the bike this time. I ended up doing just shy of 1000km in 10hrs worth of riding spread over three days.

One thing that amazed me over this time was the number of riders on 'big' bikes that had to slow down significantly for a number of hardly challenging corners - the reason for this? They chose to enter the corner hugging the 'inside line'. For a left hander this is the left shoulder, for a right hander this would be the centre line. How hard is it to start wide and finish tight? Doing so allows more visibility, better safety and arguably a more enjoyable cornering experience.

All in all I don't think I was using more gas or accelerating harder than any riders that I ended up passing on my way to Wanganui and then on to Taupo - I was simply taking a smarter line into the corners and not having to adjust my speed for these corners as much. Compare this with a couple of riders on 250's (eatorbeeaten and her partner) who were quite happily trundling along at about 90kmh, taking the corners quite confidently and even having the courtesy to move over to the left when they saw a faster bike coming up from behind.

Another thing was a rider on a CBR1000RR who after slowly slipping away from me through some of the twisty parts along SH4 on the way North decided that it would be a good idea to cut me up at 180kmh+ as I was passing a well known motorcycle technician on a very long straight piece of road. Perhaps the fact that I was quite close to licence losing speed wasn't fast enough for him and he needed to regain some wank factor after being left behind by a fully laden bike with half the horsepower he had. In a situation like that he only had to wait another 4-5seconds and he would have had 5km to pass me, why he chose to do it when I was already passing another vehicle (car + trailer) on a two lane stretch of road is beyond me.

I guess I take some of the knowledge I hold for granted, but I still find myself somewhat bewildered by the fact that people on motorcycles capable of doing over 250kmh don't seem to have the skill or self control when it really counts.

**george formby** · 4th January 2010, 18:59

Aw, man, you look through the same visor as me. I'm a firm believer in "making progress". It's not how fast I go but how I maintain an average speed, thats the fun of riding well - Roadcraft. I'm regularly amazed after being overtaken by riders travelling at high speed on the straights to end up being baulked by them at the next bit of fun, twistie road.
Maybe horses for courses, we have dragsters & scratchers & then we have those who just use their right hand to much.

**dipshit** · 4th January 2010, 19:09

I always find it funny in here when people are ranting and raving and criticising the poor standards of car drivers on NZ roads... yet sooooooo many motorcyclists also have bad habits and road skills as well.

**george formby** · 4th January 2010, 19:19

Originally Posted by dipshit

I always find it funny in here when people are ranting and raving and criticising the poor standards of car drivers on NZ roads... yet sooooooo many motorcyclists also have bad habits and road skills as well.

Yep, it's all traffic. I have a number of friends, drivers & riders who will happily nod their heads in sage agreement when we talk about behaviour on the roads, tut tutting & vouching their own abilities as being very good. Having accompanied them on rides & as a passenger In the car I know they are deluding themselves. Abilities are average to downright dangerous. The one thing all have in common is that they have no interest in getting any better, further education, geez, just reading an article in a magazine would be a start. Travelling obliviously for years. 2 wheels or 4 it's the nut behind the wheel...

**kiwifruit** · 5th January 2010, 08:11

I can only hope to one day be as awesome as you, Gareth

**MSTRS:Me** · 5th January 2010, 08:31

Originally Posted by dipshit

I always find it funny in here when people are ranting and raving and criticising the poor standards of car drivers on NZ roads... yet sooooooo many motorcyclists also have bad habits and road skills as well.

Hmmm....I'll assume you read the first post, but did you actually comprehend the words?

**PrincessBandit** · 5th January 2010, 08:37

I don't really think taking corners a little more slowly is such an issue. Is it more that you are suggesting they could take them quicker by altering their line? If so, that surely is for them to decide. For example my son flicks our little ginny through corners following the left fairly closely; my only suggestion to him regarding that is that he obviously needs to be aware of potential obstacles on that line (as you have to with any you take). I prefer to take corners (especially the tighter left ones) a tad slower on my bandit as I prefer to know that I'm in control of my bike at a manageable speed rather than having to crank it hard over in order to exit where I want to go!
Unless someone is doing it dangerously, I don't see why you need to comment on their cornering if their speed in and out of them is they only thing puzzling you.

**dipshit** · 5th January 2010, 08:44

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Hmmm....I'll assume you read the first post, but did you actually comprehend the words?

Yes...??? I was agreeing with him. You would think from reading KB, that motorcyclist's shit doesn't stink. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There are a lot a poorly skilled motorcyclists around.

**PrincessBandit** · 5th January 2010, 08:46

And as for the "bigger bike" issue of handling, I am happy opening mine up a bit on nice long stretches, but am obviously not so confident on tightish twisties (in fact I don't like them very much at all). Again, using my son as an example - Ripper Roo92 races through Twilight road (Clevedon way for Aucklanders) and has to wait for me while I lumber along behind at a whole 30kph average. Now that might be more to do with the fact that I've come off my bike and he has, to date, never come off his therefore I know what awaits me if I misjudge those corners. Yes I agree with you that it seems a bit incongruous that a rider who feels happy to warp past at 160+ can't handle corners with an equal amount of "skill" but just be happy with your own riding and pace and fuel consumption etc and let them worry about theirs. The only time I'd take huge exception to what I've said is if they are endangering others (not just holding them up temporarily) by poor road craft.

**dipshit** · 5th January 2010, 08:52

Originally Posted by PrincessBandit

I don't really think taking corners a little more slowly is such an issue. Is it more that you are suggesting they could take them quicker by altering their line?

It's not about the speed. One of the biggest killers on a bike is failing to take a corner and running wide into a ditch or oncoming traffic. Apexing too early will increase the chances of running wide. (and that is applicable to whatever speed you ride at)

**MSTRS:Me** · 5th January 2010, 08:54

Originally Posted by PrincessBandit

I don't really think taking corners a little more slowly is such an issue. Is it more that you are suggesting they could take them quicker by altering their line? If so, that surely is for them to decide.

Cornering lines have a huge part to play in (potential) safe cornering speed. The fact that those Gareth came across were taking a tight line at corner entry means that those riders were creating a problem for themselves and an irritation for anyone behind.

Originally Posted by dipshit

Yes...??? I was agreeing with him. You would think from reading KB, that motorcyclist's shit doesn't stink. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There are a lot a poorly skilled motorcyclists around.

Yes...I just wondered why you felt the need to bring up poor cager skills in this thread.

**Pussy** · 5th January 2010, 09:02

Originally Posted by dipshit

It's not about the speed. One of the biggest killers on a bike is failing to take a corner and running wide into a ditch or oncoming traffic. Apexing too early will increase the chances of running wide. (and that is applicable to whatever speed you ride at)

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Cornering lines have a huge part to play in (potential) safe cornering speed. The fact that those Gareth came across were taking a tight line at corner entry means that those riders were creating a problem for themselves and an irritation for anyone behind.

You two are right on the money!

**PrincessBandit** · 5th January 2010, 09:05

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Cornering lines have a huge part to play in (potential) safe cornering speed. The fact that those Gareth came across were taking a tight line at corner entry means that those riders were creating a problem for themselves and an irritation for anyone behind.

I agree with what you are saying, but surely if you are "irritated" by someone you are following you patiently await your opportunity to pass and leave them behind. If it's someone you are "riding with" as part of your group then reorganise the riding order so that you can go on ahead and wait for them to catch up. I don't know what a rider's speed through a corner has to do with it if their line is "acceptable". Surely you are not insisting that even if their line is good they have to speed up for you?

**Pussy** · 5th January 2010, 09:14

Originally Posted by PrincessBandit

I agree with what you are saying, but surely if you are "irritated" by someone you are following you patiently await your opportunity to pass and leave them behind. If it's someone you are "riding with" as part of your group then reorganise the riding order so that you can go on ahead and wait for them to catch up. I don't know what a rider's speed through a corner has to do with it if their line is "acceptable". Surely you are not insisting that even if their line is good they have to speed up for you?

I don't think MSTRS, dipshit or R6Kid are suggesting that for a moment, PB.
They are making an observation that there are some who have absolutely NO BLOODY IDEA on line taking