Countersteering: Putting theory to practice, my experience

[p.dath]

More,often voiced bullshit,If this was the case then bikes fitted with car tyres or square classic bike tyres could not be steered,and this is certainly not the case.

I concur with rok-the-boat. The central and outside diameter of bike tyres are different by design, because of the assistance to turning.

Sure you can use flat car tyres, sure you can still turn, but the handling is poor, which is why it is seldom done anymore.

[Drew]

This is probably the most convincing article I have read about the fallacy of body steering, and why you need to lean to steer:
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

I know why you need to steer, but the article is WRONG!!!

Can a bike be ridden with no hands on the bars? YES.

Only conclusion to be taken from that is... A bike CAN be steered with the body.

[p.dath]

I know why you need to steer, but the article is WRONG!!!

Can a bike be ridden with no hands on the bars? YES.

Only conclusion to be taken from that is... A bike CAN be steered with the body.

I don't have sufficient experience to argue the point either way.

I do sometimes ride downhill with no-hands at low speed - I've been doing it to practice balancing my weight on my bike. But I don't reckon I could deliberatly steer. Sure if the bike started turning one way I could keep it going that way, but that's not deliberate steering.

And the California Superbike School, the famous Keith Codes creation, is very well respected. I think they have been running something like 25 years. They have invited lots of very experienced riders to try out the "No BS Machine" to see if they could deliberately body steer, and they couldn't.

All in all, the vast reputation of the organisation involved, the calibre of the riders who have tried - I tend to believe them. Maybe one day I might meet you and you might be able to show me something that all these top riders could not achieve.


So can a bike be ridden with no hands, sure. Can body weight be used to assist steering, sure. Can body weight on its own, without the use of the bars be used solely as the only method for deliberately steering - I don't think so.

[marty]

I take it on faith that since there's not a pile of wrecked bikes on every corner countersteering is happening without conscious effort all over the country...

have you ever been on a coro loop KB ride?

[Drew]

I dont doubt, that when holding the bar that is solid mounted you cant steer the bike, but when riding no hands and leaning back, it's easy to steer. Exactly the same as on a push bike riding with no hands. You throw your weight to the inside, and then back up again forcing the bike to lean over, thus turning it.

Please explain to me how that is not steering the bike with body position. Anyone.

I am only pointing this out to be argumentative, but for them to say it cant be done at all is wrong, it should say it cant be done whilst holding the solid bar on the front of a sports bike.

I am intrigued now though, so will mount a bar on my pit beast and test it myself. He mentions that he thinks knobly tyres make it possible, so I'll find some street tyres to put on for the purpose of satisfying my curiosity. (That'll make my bike better for the bucket track too).

[Headbanger]

I know why you need to steer, but the article is WRONG!!!

Can a bike be ridden with no hands on the bars? YES.

Only conclusion to be taken from that is... A bike CAN be steered with the body.

The conclusion to be taken is that you can't steer a bike with a locked front end, no matter what input you use, Which is why only dumb fucks have a locked front end and then write articles about not being able to steer.

[Drew]

The conclusion to be taken is that you can't steer a bike with a locked front end, no matter what input you use, Which is why only dumb fucks have a locked front end and then write articles about not being able to steer.

Wasn't a locked front end, it's just a solid mounted bar to frame, instead of the triple clamps I think.

[Pixie]

This is probably the most convincing article I have read about the fallacy of body steering, and why you need to lean to steer:
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machi...bs-machine.php

You obviously didn't go to the link in my first post,then?

[Pixie]

I am perplexed at what Keith says here. Since it's quite easy to ride along with no hands on the bars and negotiate turns. Chris Pfeifer manages to do no handed, full lock circles and drag a hand on the ground at the same time.

A bike can be turned without any pressure on the bars, Keith is WRONG.

Oddly, (or perhaps obviously), the trick to it is leaning your body back. It kinda makes sense to lean back since you are leaning into the turn, perhaps this is what allows the front wheel to steer out from under you and make the bike lean.

Certainly not something that helps in an emergency situation, but very doable anyway.

I suggest you set up a No BS bike like Code did and prove it to us

At this writing, we have run nearly 100 riders of all experience levels on this double barred bike. It has made believers out of every single one in the actuality of countersteering of course. At 20 to 35 mph, no matter how much you tug or push or pull or jump around on the bike, the best we saw was that the bike wiggled and became somewhat unstable. Did it turn? Not really. Would it turn at higher speed? Absolutely not.

[Pixie]

The conclusion to be taken is that you can't steer a bike with a locked front end, no matter what input you use, Which is why only dumb fucks have a locked front end and then write articles about not being able to steer.

Ignoramus the No BS bike does not have locked steering

[Headbanger]

Ignoramus the No BS bike does not have locked steering

Big wank, I couldn't give a fuck about the facts.

LMFAO.

besides, I can go around corners on my bicycle without touching the bars, That's good enough for me.

And I'm fuckin awesome so its all good.

[Pixie]

I concur with rok-the-boat. The central and outside diameter of bike tyres are different by design, because of the assistance to turning.

Sure you can use flat car tyres, sure you can still turn, but the handling is poor, which is why it is seldom done anymore.

Bollocks.This is as wrong as the body steering theory. The parabolic curve of the tyre profile ensures that the bike CoG drops slightly when the bike is countersteered into a corner.
This will make the bike stable in a lean and require energy input into the steering to bring it upright again.This is in combination with the steering geometry of the bike and the lateral tension angle of the front tyre in a turn and other factors..
That's why some tyres suit some bikes and not others

[newbould]

No hands steering on a push bike (aqnd therefore on a motorbike) is done by countersteering with your body then leaning into the ocrner - still countersteering first. Go out and do it. You give a little flick of weight to the left to wobble the front wheel that direction - when the bike leans right in response you balance it round the corner . All from memory but not from too many years ago.

[Headbanger]

No hands steering on a push bike (aqnd therefore on a motorbike) is done by countersteering with your body then leaning into the ocrner - still countersteering first. Go out and do it. You give a little flick of weight to the left to wobble the front wheel that direction - when the bike leans right in response you balance it round the corner . All from memory but not from too many years ago.

Yep, I'm aware of that, I recorgnise the wiggle of the bike for what it is, and I'm sure I could corner a bike with a second set of handle bars as long as the front end wasn't locked solid, Hence my calling locking the front end the work of a fuckwit.

Hence lots of noise being made as it turns out the front end on the bike all these drop-kicks couldn't corner wasn't locked in place after all, Useless bastards couldn't instigate a bit of counter-steering with their bodies. Might as well be pushing prams.

[Drew]

I suggest you set up a No BS bike like Code did and prove it to us

At this writing, we have run nearly 100 riders of all experience levels on this double barred bike. It has made believers out of every single one in the actuality of countersteering of course. At 20 to 35 mph, no matter how much you tug or push or pull or jump around on the bike, the best we saw was that the bike wiggled and became somewhat unstable. Did it turn? Not really. Would it turn at higher speed? Absolutely not.

So you're saying a bike cannot be ridden no hands?

No hands steering on a push bike (aqnd therefore on a motorbike) is done by countersteering with your body then leaning into the ocrner - still countersteering first. Go out and do it. You give a little flick of weight to the left to wobble the front wheel that direction - when the bike leans right in response you balance it round the corner . All from memory but not from too many years ago.

Never said it didn't involve counter steering, all I said was this. "A bike does not turn, with body positioning alone", is an incorrect statement. It can clearly be turned with nothing more than body input.