Next BIG Protest with StoneY and the Unions

[riffer]

But how good is the image of Hone riding a bike with no lid on, surely that's gonna work against us

Personally I think Hone's a bit cleverer than we all take him for. I think due to his mana (and yes he does have a lot in Maoridom) he is able to almost stand a bit aside from the Maori Party at times, and he gives them the opportunity to say some stuff that the Maori Party, due to their confidence and supply agreement, wouldn't otherwise be able to do. He's running a very fine line in parliament, and his job is to push the boundaries for Maori as much as possible. True, he's going to step on a few toes and upset a few people sometimes doing that but he has the ability to test the waters and see what the public will actually handle. Just a thought...

[MSTRS:Me]

I hope this is printed in the DomPost. I just sent it off.
HBToday printed it today...

Dear sir

Last year I wrote a series of letters re ACC levy rises, particularly as they pertained to motorcycles. Included in those letters were warnings of proposed levy rises for other vehicles and on wages etc. Since then, such rises have been announced, with barely a whimper heard in response. There were also warnings of other, unpalatable measures being planned. I wonder if there will be a whimper when these come to pass?

Already we are seeing cases where people in their 50s, who are injured at work, are being turned down for cover because their 'condition is age-related' according to ACC. How long before this extends to people in their 40s?

Still to come...

Increased up-front charge at the Doctors.

Cuts to our entitlements. 80% wage compensation will drop to 70%. And then only for 12 months. After that, it will drop to 60%. And after 2 years, it will cease altogether. Unless YOU pay a specialist to re-assess your condition and eligibility for continued cover.

And you will have to use any sick leave and holiday leave you have accrued, before ACC compensation kicks in.

But because you are still ‘covered’, you still have no right to sue to recover the shortfall should someone else have caused your injuries.

The continued interference by successive governments with ACC is destroying this unique-in-the-world scheme. The current round of meddling is simply speeding up it’s demise. Soon we will be told that we’ll be better off if ACC gets privatised. Right! Privatising electricity made it cheaper. Didn’t it?

So – who is happy to pay more and get less for it? In the words of Rhys Darby, "No-one, huh? Typical."

But it’s not too late. Yet. The only viable option is to return ACC to it’s original (Woodhouse) principles. That is what all Nzers should be calling for. And there might just be a few at Parliament around lunchtime on Tuesday 16th doing just that. The invite is open to all.

[mashman]

superb !

[caseye]

Hone is no simple minded racist Stoney me ol mate, he can and does get along with many people from many places.I'd shake his hand THEN I'D COUNT ME FINGERS.

If he does actually represent the Maori party in marching with the Unions and us against the National Govt's attempt to destroy and then sell off selected bits of ACC without losing all of the bits and bobs it takes off us all.Then mate I'm in because that is a very Big Step for the Maori Party to take.

They are telling us by their official presence that they no longer support the National Govt's agenda on this issue.

They have to have done a rethink on this issue and they are fronting up with the Gov'ts opposition at Parliament.
Huge is what this is!

More MUST BE MADE OF IT.

I know someone who knows someone I'll make as many calls as I can come on KB'ers tell the whole bloody Country the Govts confidence and supply partner has just pulled the plug officially on this issue.

[Drogen Omen]

whats up with all the bikes in Welly today? rode last about 50 or 60 bikers heading to welly this arvo...

something happening in welly that we don't know about...?

btw i'll be there for the protest rally...

[Conquiztador]

So now we are in bed with Labour, Unions, Maori Party + Hone. Sadly this will make many bikers distance them self from it all. (And if Hone comes close to me while I am there I will tell him to fuck off)

I am but a lone voice in this all but I think this all has gone a step further than many bikers were prepared to be part of, and it was something I tried to say a few months ago; The only thing bikers fully agreed on was that the proposed ACC hikes were just not on. Then anything else/more was a totally different issue. Riding a bike has nothing to do with ones political conviction. You could argue that taking ACC back to how it was supposed to be has also nothing to do with ones political views. But by involving all these others it has become very political.

Not that anyone cares, but when I ask my self if I am OK with all this, my honest reply is: I am uncomfortable re who we are aligning us (us=bikers) with. Do I support a win at any cost? No.

[riffer]

That's exactly what the government is hoping for. That there will be no consensus amongst disagreeable folk. That way they can do their will. Remember, all that evil requires to triumph is for good men and women to stand aside and do nothing.

I totally understand your reticence. Believe me, I had to do some real soul-searching before aligning myself with people I'd always had a healthy wariness of. But at the end of the day, I firmly believe the issue is more important than the participants.

Of course it's political. We're dealing with politicians. How else did you expect this to turn out?

[riffer]

Don't forget also that we are starting to plan Bikeoi II.

You may wish to help more with that, if you feel you can't play with other people.

[gazmascelle]

So now we are in bed with Labour, Unions, Maori Party + Hone. Sadly this will make many bikers distance them self from it all. (And if Hone comes close to me while I am there I will tell him to fuck off)

I am but a lone voice in this all but I think this all has gone a step further than many bikers were prepared to be part of, and it was something I tried to say a few months ago; The only thing bikers fully agreed on was that the proposed ACC hikes were just not on. Then anything else/more was a totally different issue. Riding a bike has nothing to do with ones political conviction. You could argue that taking ACC back to how it was supposed to be has also nothing to do with ones political views. But by involving all these others it has become very political.

Not that anyone cares, but when I ask my self if I am OK with all this, my honest reply is: I am uncomfortable re who we are aligning us (us=bikers) with. Do I support a win at any cost? No.

So you wanna protest against something that will effect all new zealanders, but you don't want to protest along side certain people?

we can take part in something like this with maori/labour/bill and ben/etc etc involved, it doesn't mean we're holding their hand (or in bed with them lol), it just means we're putting aside our differences for two hours to make a point to the government that we're all not interested in paying more for SFA

Just my humble opinion..

[Conquiztador]

So you wanna protest against something that will effect all new zealanders, but you don't want to protest along side certain people?

we can take part in something like this with maori/labour/bill and ben/etc etc involved, it doesn't mean we're holding their hand (or in bed with them lol), it just means we're putting aside our differences for two hours to make a point to the government that we're all not interested in paying more for SFA

Just my humble opinion..

Thanks, respect your opinion.

I have already protested. Twice. Against the proposed increase in ACC levies. That was what I protested against. Nothing else. Said that, I agree with what ACC was supposed to be in the beginning, and are not happy that something that, in my opinion, is, in the contex, probably one of the best accident compensation plans in the world, is stripped and demoted to something that is far away from the initial principle.

The fact is that bikers are not, and never will be, a politically united group. It can not happen as "we" in midst of us have extreme right wing, blood red leftists and everything else in-between. And that is what is so unique re us. The only things uniting us are the interest and riding of our bikes. It breaks down the barriers that otherwise would make it impossible to sit at the same table laughing at something together.

In this we are now moving away from that. Now "we" (the bikers) are considered supporters of the leftist view. There are those of "us" who have that view, that are Communists and Labour supporters. And I am totally OK with that. But there is an equal amount that are not. I therefore predict that as a result you will not get the same support for any Bikeoi II.

Will it matter? Not sure. But consider this:
The ones who are now "supporting" us are not, and never were, National voters. National will not worry about a protest by unions and left wing radicals. There are no votes to loose there. But bike riders were different. By making us peed off there was an estimate that 50% of the ones who label them selves as bikers were right voters. And if National did not do the right thing they could loose them come next election. You could therefore conclude that the bikers who support this are also already Labour voters. And therefore not important to National.

Who knows. Just not sure that where this is going is where I was prepared to go.

[gazmascelle]

I'm an ex-national voter lol. I don't know wether or not national care much about my opinion, but i do know that they will care even less if I stay at home

[oldrider]

I hope this is printed in the DomPost. I just sent it off.
HBToday printed it today...

Well done, how do you eat an elephant----one bight at a time!

You had one error of fact that you quoted but it didn't detract from the intended message so no worries!

Good on you keep it up.

[caseye]

Con, I've voted for bloody National a few times, the greens never. Labour , oh once I can remember.I'm not voting National ever again OR until this ACC business is put right. By right I mean put back up on the pedestal it should be on and left alone by all Political parties for ever, ad infinimum.
I don't like Hone and i've come to think that Pita Sharples is being lead by the nose and I'm disappointed about that, but neither man is stupid and if they have truely jeopardised the Maori Party national party confidence and supply agreement to participate in this ACC Protest rally. Then I can and will march alongside them next week.
My enemys enemy is my friend if it helps get rid of the enemy.
As for bikers being so dverse they can't agree on somethin", ah excuse me, what did we (Bikers from all walks of life, from every racial, ethnic, cultural and or gang relationship) do Last November?
We got together! Ahmen and we told the Nat's "BULLSHIT" thats what we did.
The issue proved big enough to overcome every divide there had ever been and to put white collar and gang members together in the same place side by side with every other type of bike rider there has ever been.
Whats changed?
It's still an ACC Protest and now we have the ones who didn't see it coming walking alongside us and adding thier voice.
Can't be a bad thing, can it?
More voices and more people of whatever political or otherwise background has to make the Nats go, Oh dear whats going on?
They can't afford to have an official Maori Party presence at this protest it'll make em look STUPID.
Well stupider then they were when they thought we'd roll over and pay up!
Go on man take a big breath, step up and come again!We need all the help we can get.
Bottom line, Numbers are all politicians ever take notice of.

[oldrider]

Thanks, respect your opinion.

I have already protested. Twice. Against the proposed increase in ACC levies. That was what I protested against. Nothing else. Said that, I agree with what ACC was supposed to be in the beginning, and are not happy that something that, in my opinion, is, in the contex, probably one of the best accident compensation plans in the world, is stripped and demoted to something that is far away from the initial principle.

The fact is that bikers are not, and never will be, a politically united group. It can not happen as "we" in midst of us have extreme right wing, blood red leftists and everything else in-between. And that is what is so unique re us. The only things uniting us are the interest and riding of our bikes. It breaks down the barriers that otherwise would make it impossible to sit at the same table laughing at something together.

In this we are now moving away from that. Now "we" (the bikers) are considered supporters of the leftist view. There are those of "us" who have that view, that are Communists and Labour supporters. And I am totally OK with that. But there is an equal amount that are not. I therefore predict that as a result you will not get the same support for any Bikeoi II.

Will it matter? Not sure. But consider this:
The ones who are now "supporting" us are not, and never were, National voters. National will not worry about a protest by unions and left wing radicals. There are no votes to loose there. But bike riders were different. By making us peed off there was an estimate that 50% of the ones who label them selves as bikers were right voters. And if National did not do the right thing they could loose them come next election. You could therefore conclude that the bikers who support this are also already Labour voters. And therefore not important to National.

Who knows. Just not sure that where this is going is where I was prepared to go.

Fair enough!

In the beginning I was bothered by almost exactly the same issues!

I went back and read through all the Owen Woodhouse material that I could find and reconsidered the value of the alternatives!

I have come to the conclusion that the best situation for New Zealand is the original Woodhouse concept and spirit of ACC!

Having thought about all that, I feel I can march alongside anybody, blue black orange red you name them and I will march alongside them to win this war!

When all this is put to rest I may turn around and begin a new round of "talks" with those that I disagree with about the things we "disagree" on!

I believe in freedom of speech, thought, association and expression and I have no trouble associating myself with people voicing their dissatisfaction against current ACC directions.

I would march to war shoulder to shoulder with these people to defend the country from an invader or oppressor and I see no difference in this issue, it's that serious! (IMHO)

[Conquiztador]

They can't afford to have an official Maori Party presence at this protest it'll make em look STUPID.
Well stupider then they were when they thought we'd roll over and pay up!
Go on man take a big breath, step up and come again!We need all the help we can get.
Bottom line, Numbers are all politicians ever take notice of.

Thanks. I had already made up my mind: I will be there. In November I was 100% sure I knew what I was doing. It was simple: No to ACC fee hikes! Now the landscape has changed. I am still against any ACC hikes. They are NOT needed. And the initial ACC principles are what I would like in place! Just don't feel so 100% sure that aligning "us" with the ones we do so with is the best option... But as I am known to say: "Better to make a decision than not. If you made a poor decision you can always change it. If you made no decision there is nothing to change..."

I would march to war shoulder to shoulder with these people to defend the country from an invader or oppressor and I see no difference in this issue, it's that serious! (IMHO)

That, dear oldrider, is a very valid point. Cheers.