Prince William

**Pussy** · 17th January 2010, 18:36

Originally Posted by nosebleed

I thought it was a colloquialism for an 'adventurous' piercing

You're thinking of one of William's great great uncles.... Albert

You're welcome!

**wbks** · 17th January 2010, 18:41

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Don't forget that Her Royal Highness Queen Elizabeth II is the Queen of New Zealand. The fact that she is also the Poms' Queen is nothing more than an accident of history. Even better is that our Queen is normally non-resident and largely not a drain on the long-suffering Kiwi taxpayer.

So you agree that she is marely a figurehead with no negative consequence on NZ?

**Hitcher** · 17th January 2010, 18:51

Originally Posted by wbks

So you agree that she is marely a figurehead with no negative consequence on NZ?

Yes. And I also think that you need to beware of the zealots from the Scottish Thread, given your recent claims of excellence. Marely indeed...

**Ixion** · 17th January 2010, 18:55

So you agree that she is marely a figurehead with no negative consequence on NZ?

Not quite. She is a figure head who stops OTHER people NOT being figureheads. F'instance, the army are NOT , ultimately, accountable to the Prime Minister. They are under the command of the Queen (through her GG). Thus keeping final control of the armed forces out of political hands. For an example of what can happen when that is not the case , see Fiji. Ditto police.

Originally Posted by wbks

Seems I'm wrong on the constitution business, according to the republican movement of NZ website, it wouldn't involve a change of the flag (strange considering the whole thing is symbolic and the union jack is symbolic on the flag... Must be picking their battles, huh), commonwealth membership (knew that already) and the treaty of Waitangi... So besides the official head of state being elected by US, what does it change?
http://www.republic.org.nz

The argument that "there will be no change" is disingenuous in the extreme.

It is a long standing constitutional convention that the Queen is above party politics. But it is impossible to imagine a Presidential position in NZ NOT being a party political one. So that is a VERY major change.You can't just elect someone and say he (she) takes the place of the Queen. Immediately, instead of a figurehead (in which reposes the reserve powers ) , you have a politician. One reason for the 'figurehead' position is that there are some powers that are to great and too tempting to be trusted to any politician.

I defy any republican to suggest a name that would take the job, that would do it adequately, and that would be satisfactory to a majority of the country . How many people want President Helen Clark? But she would be the most likely present contender for the role.

And if the President is political, then you have a major issue with conflict between the President and the Prime Minister . Even if from the same party there'll be conflict , if from opposing parties, major conflict. There's a reason that the USA has no prime minister. So if you want a NZ president, you have to reckon on maybe getting rid of the role of prime minister. Or else a prime minister-president with power colossally greater than at present .

No changes ? Yeah, right. Me, I'd rather have Queen Liz than President Helen. (Of course, I'd rather have the rightful monarch, King Francis, than either of them)

**wbks** · 17th January 2010, 18:57

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Yes. And I also think that you need to beware of the zealots from the Scottish Thread, given your recent claims of excellence. Marely indeed...

Like I said if you were following closely enough: Spelling doesn't matter in NZQA, just understanding of concepts within the English language. And seeing as I obviously spell well enough for you to understand, and the markers each year, that doesn't come into the equation. Are certain people really so left for dead in that thread that they can only pick apart my spelling?

**wbks** · 17th January 2010, 19:02

Originally Posted by Ixion

Not quite. She is a figure head who stops OTHER people NOT being figureheads. F'instance, the army are NOT , ultimately, accountable to the Prime Minister. They are under the command of the Queen (through her GG). Thus keeping final control of the armed forces out of political hands. For an example of what can happen when that is not the case , see Fiji. Ditto police.

The argument that "there will be no change" is disingenuous in the extreme.

It is a long standing constitutional convention that the Queen is above party politics. But it is impossible to imagine a Presidential position in NZ NOT being a party political one. So that is a VERY major change.You can't just elect someone and say he (she) takes the place of the Queen. Immediately, instead of a figurehead (in which reposes the reserve powers ) , you have a politician. One reason for the 'figurehead' position is that there are some powers that are to great and too tempting to be trusted to any politician.

I defy any republican to suggest a name that would take the job, that would do it adequately, and that would be satisfactory to a majority of the country . How many people want President Helen Clark? But she would be the most likely present contender for the role.

And if the President is political, then you have a major issue with conflict between the President and the Prime Minister . Even if from the same party there'll be conflict , if from opposing parties, major conflict. There's a reason that the USA has no prime minister. So if you want a NZ president, you have to reckon on maybe getting rid of the role of prime minister. Or else a prime minister-president with power colossally greater than at present .

No changes ? Yeah, right. Me, I'd rather have Queen Liz than President Helen. (Of course, I'd rather have the rightful monarch, King Francis, than either of them)

Thanks for this post, I'm getting a better understanding of the whole subject, I'll be the first to admit that I have a very basic understanding of it, just what little I do know leaves me in favor of the "status quo". One of the reasons I thought that change would be minimal, is how would the prime minister and president operate together, like you mentioned. I can't help but think that scrapping a prime minister all together is pretty major. I wonder how Russia operates with a PM and President?... Maybe I know way too little about her seeing as I was younger and not at all interested in politics when she "reigned", but what little I do know actually makes me think she may be, ultimately, a good leader for New Zealand. I could say why but you probably disagree.

**Hitcher** · 17th January 2010, 19:07

Originally Posted by wbks

Are certain people really so left for dead in that thread that they can only pick apart my spelling?

Let's just say that you overestimate yourself at your peril in that particular thread and leave it at that. This conversation should also be had there rather than here. That's more than a mare detail...

**wbks** · 17th January 2010, 19:11

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Let's just say that you overestimate yourself at your peril in that particular thread and leave it at that. This conversation should also be had there rather than here. That's more than a mare detail...

Lol I'll say that I'm not particularly ashamed to be out of the loop regarding that 1300 or so pages, and leave it at that

**Elysium** · 17th January 2010, 19:15

Funny enough if we ever do become a republic we'll just end up being part of Australia not long after.

**wbks** · 17th January 2010, 19:16

Originally Posted by Elysium

Funny enough if we ever do become a republic we'll just end up being part of Australia not long after.

I know you're probably saying this tongue in cheek, but...
Um... Why?

**Elysium** · 17th January 2010, 19:22

Originally Posted by wbks

I know you're probably saying this tongue in cheek, but...
Um... Why?

You do realise how dependant we are on them right?

**Skyryder** · 17th January 2010, 19:24

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Yes. And I also think that you need to beware of the zealots from the Scottish Thread, given your recent claims of excellence. Marely indeed...

It is a mistake to see the Queen as a figure head. She is the embodiement of he Crown and t without her authority (Gov Gen) nothing becomes law and Parliment is not ursurpped. The Queen weilds the big stick (the military by command of the Gov Gen.) to ensure that the laws of this land are promulgated lawfully.

Shit we can not even agree on how to hold our elections and some want to change from a Constitutional Monarchy to a Republic.

Skyryder

**Winston001** · 17th January 2010, 19:27

The interesting reaction to republicanism is that the citizens create a de facto royalty to replace what is gone. Just look at the USA adoration of movie stars. Daily they get more crowds and pizzazz than the British royalty ever get. One of the English reporters following William pointed that out today. For some reason we like to put someone up on a pedestal.

Our constitutional monarchy is benign and serves us well.

**Skyryder** · 17th January 2010, 19:34

Originally Posted by wbks

Thanks for this post, I'm getting a better understanding of the whole subject, I'll be the first to admit that I have a very basic understanding of it, just what little I do know leaves me in favor of the "status quo". One of the reasons I thought that change would be minimal, is how would the prime minister and president operate together, like you mentioned. I can't help but think that scrapping a prime minister all together is pretty major. I wonder how Russia operates with a PM and President?... Maybe I know way too little about her seeing as I was younger and not at all interested in politics when she "reigned", but what little I do know actually makes me think she may be, ultimately, a good leader for New Zealand. I could say why but you probably disagree.

The President and PM would not operate together. Their powers would be seperate. The President would fullfill the functions of the Gov Gen. Head of the Military. Then again there my not be a PM. Just a President. The Powers of the Gove Gen could go to an Upper House as it is with Congress. like I said in another post we can not even agree on how to hold our elections without someone advoacting change. NZ a republic??...............I don't see a fish in the land any more.............but with a bit of imagination...........we could look like a bannanna.

skyryder