250cc hedgehog and other stats

[avgas]

my motorcycle costs more in fuel per KM, and its emissions kill more whales than my car.

But does it ram other boats!!!!!

[Scorp]

I,ve been keeping stats on Trade Me of total bike sale listing numbers for some time now. several years ago was under 5000 and has crept up slowly but since 15/10/09 (when all the rego aggro started to impact) it was at 8104 on the 15/10/09, peaked at 9006 on 26/11/09. Really peaked at 9213 on the 15/12/09, declined a bit over January and at 2.53 pm 22/1/10 was 8925. This disquieting increase in people trying to sell bikes can be directly attributed the cost of biking i bet and new rules

I think there may be another reason for all these bikes piling up on Trade Me. It's now up to 9,662. I reckon a good part of it is sellers with unrealistic expectations, leading to loads of unsold bikes. As a noob I'm in the market for a 250 at the moment and am keeping a close eye on things on Trade Me.

I see a lot of 250 bikes (90% plus) getting no interest at all. No bids, no questions, no sales. The auction date comes around, the bike doesn't sell, a few days go by, it gets relisted. Some sellers go through this again. Some relist with an ONO asking price. but none of them wants to budge on price.

I've just had a closer look at listings for one of the most popular entry bikes, the Ninja 250, and this is what I found...

1. There are 16 second-hand, private sale 2008 Ninja 250s. Average kms = 5,043. Average price = $6,320. For free you get no warranty and no comebacks.

2. There are 10 dealer listings for brand new 2009 model Ninja 250s. Fresh out the box. Average price = $7,836. All come under warranty, some have free ORCs or cashbacks. All offer finance. And you get the usual comebacks.

That's just fifteen 1500 bucks difference!

So I guess my question is: how many of you guys reckon a second hand 2008 model Ninja with 5k on the clock is worth just $1,500 less than a brand new, never ridden, never dropped 2009 model, perhaps with free ORCs and a full warranty?

I always thought the rule of thumb was that a brand new bike looses 20% of its value the day you ride it out the showroom. These guys seem to think that a 20% drop is good 2 years, 5,000 kms and a couple of drops later.

I reckon $4,750 for a second-hand two-year old Ninja with 5,000 kms on the clock sounds about fair to me. The same goes for many of the other starter 250 bikes on offer too. There are a handful of sensibly priced ones that are selling. The rest are all overpriced by about 20% to 30%.

It was my plan to buy a second hand bike, but I don't want to find myself taking the hit on an overpriced second hand bike when I come to sell in in a year or two. Right now, I'd much rather pay the extra $1,500 for a brand new bike, and take the hit on that.

What do you all think?

[middleaged2wheeler]

New bikes do lose 20 -25% as you ride it out of the showroom--each 1000 kms after that rides the value away - but so what-- probably still be a very good bike in most cases- get it to 20 or 40,000 kms-and everyone has a different opinion on value - perceived quality brands lose less value- --I agree it is the private sales people that don,t like dropping value as they feel ripped off--buying new bike, one would have to keep bike for 4 years otherwise losing too much money. - Current market conditions are not ideal for top resale dollar, so sellers have to be reasonable or they won,t sell. Dealers are more in tune with the sales market these days as it is their livelyhood.

[middleaged2wheeler]

Apart from tough market conditions, all the Govt tinkering in the background with ACC and licenses etc etc, one would think they were trying push bikes off the road to solve the problem. My guess there will be a glut of 50cc scooters up for sale by the end of the year if all those riding them on car licenses have to get motorcycle licenses--plenty around my way just scoot to the shops or the pub but would they bother sitting for a bike license--I wouldn,t be importing large numbers of scooters until the new license conditions are made clear---I,m sure other countries don,t have such interference in their motorcycling lives, but NZ seems to have---that is why that BILL M dealer in Bulls sold up and peed off to Auzzie--in fact a learners bike license over there allows riding most 600cc bikes.
If there is a glut of 50cc scooters coming up one could start an off road scooter hire venue where they can be trashed to bits one by one at say $40 an hour.

[middleaged2wheeler]

Apart from tough market conditions, all the Govt tinkering in the background with ACC and licenses etc etc, one would think they were trying push bikes off the road to solve the problem. My guess there will be a glut of 50cc scooters up for sale by the end of the year if all those riding them on car licenses have to get motorcycle licenses--plenty around my way just scoot to the shops or the pub but would they bother sitting for a bike license--I wouldn,t be importing large numbers of scooters until the new license conditions are made clear---I,m sure other countries don,t have such interference in their motorcycling lives, but NZ seems to have---that is why that BILL M dealer in Bulls sold up and peed off to Auzzie--in fact a learners bike license over there allows riding most 600cc bikes.
If there is a glut of 50cc scooters coming up one could start an off road scooter hire venue where they can be trashed to bits one by one at say $40 an hour.

[middleaged2wheeler]

You guys are showing a rather limited perspective of what motorcycling is in the real world, the one beyond NZ's shores.

Check out China, India, Indonesia, Korea, Phillipines etc and you'll see that by and large motorcycles are of less than 250cc. Big bore bikes are the gravy for motorcycle manufacturers, while the cheap an' chearful scooters and sub-250 runabaouts are the meat and veg. GSXR's and fireblades etc are a miniscule proportion of the market worldwide. Think outside your cushy NZ recreational ridng world and get back to basic survival with the most cost effective transport required and you inevitably come back to a cheap lil' 2 wheeler.

In Dili East Timor and Ulsan Korea the staple means of transport for whole families (not unusual to see mum and dad book-ending a coupla kids in the middle) is a shitty lil' bargain basement 125cc runabout. They are every bloody where. If a cheap car was the way to go I can guarantee they'd be doing it, but it's simply not the case.

And the pollution argument is a furphy. Not everyone has emissions on the front page of the paper as NZ does, most have got more important things to worry about than the dubious claims of the impending Apocolypse in (insert sensational headline here) depending on which paper you read, they are more worried about putting food on the table next week. These are the people buying most of the worlds motorcycles.

Besides, have you seen iron ore or bauxite (raw material for Aluminium) being mined and refined? The size/running costs and emissions of the machines and refineries is beyond belief, to then transport those materials to Japan or Europe or Korea to produce say a 1600kg Hyundai Accent vs a 130kg Daelim 125 makes a mockery of the assumptions that the extended lifespan (like to see some data on that) of a car makes it more cost/emissions effective. And obviously 10 times more materials means a 10 times bigger hole in the ground/environment etc etc.

The argument that cars are a more environmentally friendly means of transport just doesn't stack up.

I used to feel sorry for the people when I saw 4 of them crammed on a small bike to get around---but i don,t any more as i think they are living greener lifestyles than many of us big vehicle addicted types.

[cave weta]

I like Hedgehogs!

[Pixie]

Modern bikes have to meet the same emissions regs as cars