Xbox games.

[k14]

yep - i've seen them - i work for microsoft NZ, in the same division as XBOX.
dude - i think you may have a different view of theft than me.
maybe you should stop locking your bike, and as bike theft is so common, someone could steal it, after all - "everyone's doing it".
there are probably stolen bikes and cars on trademe too - does that make it ok?
enlighten me.

ken

Yeah well thats the reason everyone does it, because even though it is still theft it is not the same kind of theft as stealing a car or a bike. If someone could put my bike in a copying machine and have another one I am pretty sure honda wouldn't sell many bikes either.

I would have thought that microsoft would secretly deep down like the fact that the xbox can be modded in the ways it can be. I bet they have sold a heap of xboxes to people just so they can mod them and use them as an multimedia pc for watching dvd's and other stuff. The copying of games just comes with the territory.

P.S. How much profit did micro$oft make last year?

[Badcat]

Yeah well thats the reason everyone does it, because even though it is still theft it is not the same kind of theft as stealing a car or a bike. If someone could put my bike in a copying machine and have another one I am pretty sure honda wouldn't sell many bikes either.

I would have thought that microsoft would secretly deep down like the fact that the xbox can be modded in the ways it can be. I bet they have sold a heap of xboxes to people just so they can mod them and use them as an multimedia pc for watching dvd's and other stuff. The copying of games just comes with the territory.

P.S. How much profit did micro$oft make last year?

Shit, are you really going to try and argue this point?

how is piracy less theft than petty crime?

is it ok if you steal if you do so from a large profitable company?

Microsoft makes a large loss on every xbox console - as all console manufacturors do. if you understood the gaming business, you'd know that.How would they be secretly happy with selling hardware at a loss, only to find theives using them to steal their intellectual property?

piracy costs hundreds of prople in my industry THEIR JOBS every year. I bet they see it as theft when theyt can't feed their families.
are you still living with your mum and dad K14 - wouldn't it SUCK if dad lost his job?
bet you'd think it was a bad idea then.....

[Ghost Lemur]

Copyright infringement is not thieft.

It never has been. Intellectual property is a misnomer created by companies like Microsoft and Disney who have been trying to change the rules of the game after the fact. Limiting/removing fair use, trying to expotentially extend copyrights far past the former accepted norm. Trying to give corporations the rights of inderviduals. When you have a 300% return your ripping someone off. Any company that has been able to create a surplus of $US40,000,000,000 has been breaking some laws and milking their "customers" for all their worth.

Sorry I've got no sympathy for Microsoft. Funnily enough I read an article some time ago which said Bill Gates does condone "pirating" in Developing nations. The reason he does this is even when he can't get the money from these nations he can still get the mindshare.

Buying something is not buying a licence to use it specifically as the maunfacturer intended. It a product purchased. What the purchaser chooses to do which it when they own it is their business.


Now Microsoft are finding out that their "business model" is not acceptable to ANYONE and people are choosing alternatives which do provide them with their natural rights. This is only going to increase.

/rant.

[k14]

Shit, are you really going to try and argue this point?

how is piracy less theft than petty crime?

is it ok if you steal if you do so from a large profitable company?

Microsoft makes a large loss on every xbox console - as all console manufacturors do. if you understood the gaming business, you'd know that.How would they be secretly happy with selling hardware at a loss, only to find theives using them to steal their intellectual property?

piracy costs hundreds of prople in my industry THEIR JOBS every year. I bet they see it as theft when theyt can't feed their families.
are you still living with your mum and dad K14 - wouldn't it SUCK if dad lost his job?
bet you'd think it was a bad idea then.....

I am agreeing with you that piracy is theft, I was just saying that the reason that everyone does it is because it isn't percieved as being the same as nicking someones car etc.

I find it hard to believe that people are loosing their jobs just because of piracy. Would everyone that pirates games go out and buy the legal version if the games couldn,t be copied?? I don't think so. I know all this doesn't make piracy right, but its never going to stop.

Just a question, how many games does microsoft actually make? I thought that the majority of games are made by other companies.

In the end I don't really want to get into a long strung argument about piracy etc, cause yes it is theft and yes it is going to continue to happen. Weather or not it causes people to loose jobs is a fairly hard thing to prove (but it probably does cost a few).

P.S. No I don't live with my parents, and if my dad did loose his job he would just go and get another.

P.P.S The xbox is the best console ever made, we have 3, 2 of which are modded.

[k14]

Copyright infringement is not thieft.

It never has been. Intellectual property is a misnomer created by companies like Microsoft and Disney who have been trying to change the rules of the game after the fact. Limiting/removing fair use, trying to expotentially extend copyrights far past the former accepted norm. Trying to give corporations the rights of inderviduals. When you have a 300% return your ripping someone off. Any company that has been able to create a surplus of $US40,000,000,000 has been breaking some laws and milking their "customers" for all their worth.

Sorry I've got no sympathy for Microsoft. Funnily enough I read an article some time ago which said Bill Gates does condone "pirating" in Developing nations. The reason he does this is even when he can't get the money from these nations he can still get the mindshare.

Buying something is not buying a licence to use it specifically as the maunfacturer intended. It a product purchased. What the purchaser chooses to do which it when they own it is their business.


Now Microsoft are finding out that their "business model" is not acceptable to ANYONE and people are choosing alternatives which do provide them with their natural rights. This is only going to increase.

/rant.

Oh yeah and what he said.

[Badcat]

Copyright infringement is not thieft.

It never has been. Intellectual property is a misnomer created by companies like Microsoft and Disney who have been trying to change the rules of the game after the fact. Limiting/removing fair use, trying to expotentially extend copyrights far past the former accepted norm. Trying to give corporations the rights of inderviduals. When you have a 300% return your ripping someone off. Any company that has been able to create a surplus of $US40,000,000,000 has been breaking some laws and milking their "customers" for all their worth.

Sorry I've got no sympathy for Microsoft. Funnily enough I read an article some time ago which said Bill Gates does condone "pirating" in Developing nations. The reason he does this is even when he can't get the money from these nations he can still get the mindshare.

Buying something is not buying a licence to use it specifically as the maunfacturer intended. It a product purchased. What the purchaser chooses to do which it when they own it is their business.


Now Microsoft are finding out that their "business model" is not acceptable to ANYONE and people are choosing alternatives which do provide them with their natural rights. This is only going to increase.

/rant.

what is copyright then?
is that bollocks too?
is selling NZ musician's work in asia and the artist not getting paid ok?
if yiou thing that's sweet - tell that to neil finn, or Zed, or Shihad.

next time you buy software (if you don't steal it that is), read the EULA
End User License Agreement before clicking OK to install and use it.
By using the software, you agree to the terms.
if you don't agree - return it.
you buy the right to use it - as you agreed to in the EULA, not how you see fit - it's pretty easy.
it doesn't really matter if you don't like it.

sure - i work for Bill, and MS makes buckets of cash. i'm not defending them, they are capable of doing that on their own.
you are right about the changing nature of the market - and users are becoming much more educated and empowered - and voting with their chequebooks. this is a good thing.

sorry - i didn't mean to piss people off, but i get angry when people promote theft.

it's theft - and you know it is.

Ken
Bill's little biatch....

[inlinefour]

I think its rather rude that the games are sold for so much. If they where sold for reasonable prices then maybe it would not occur.
As for modding the xbox, no way! I have enough electrical knowledge that this sort of thing will both void any warrenty and most definitely shorten the life expectancy of the console. Its a well known fact that they tend to crap out due to modification. I'd like a bigger HDD in it, but unless I can put a generic computer HDD into it, I'd sooner not bother. Microsoft have allways charged like wounded bulls for anything.
On a brighter note, I'm keen for the MotoGP3 in June when it is released. However if anyone has GP2 that they want to sell 2nd hand, then please PM me
Will let everyone know what MotoGP3 pans out when I get it and know how to use it!

[Badcat]

Copyright infringement is not thieft.

Buying something is not buying a licence to use it specifically as the maunfacturer intended. It a product purchased. What the purchaser chooses to do which it when they own it is their business.

/rant.

excellent.
avis have some sweet v8 commodores for under $200 then!
you should nip down and get one!
as you say, bugger them and the rental agreement - it's a product purchased!

maybe you need to go to a bike rental company as well!!
you could get a sportsbike real cheap!

[k14]

I think its rather rude that the games are sold for so much. If they where sold for reasonable prices then maybe it would not occur.
As for modding the xbox, no way! I have enough electrical knowledge that this sort of thing will both void any warrenty and most definitely shorten the life expectancy of the console. Its a well known fact that they tend to crap out due to modification. I'd like a bigger HDD in it, but unless I can put a generic computer HDD into it, I'd sooner not bother. Microsoft have allways charged like wounded bulls for anything.
On a brighter note, I'm keen for the MotoGP3 in June when it is released. However if anyone has GP2 that they want to sell 2nd hand, then please PM me
Will let everyone know what MotoGP3 pans out when I get it and know how to use it!

Nah modding wouldn't lessen the life of the xbox, and you put in a normal computer hard drive. They come with an 8 or 10gig hard drive that is a normal computer hard drive. You can even swap the dvd drive for a normal computer one.

Microsoft is very anti modding so all of the modding stuff is not in any way related to microsoft. You can get the mod chips off trademe for around $40 or so depending on what model you get. Then a 120 gig hard drive for around $120 i think.

[badlieutenant]

im somewhere in between on this stolen thread.
Im not innocent I have some hacked software but I hardly ever use it so I find it hard to justify its purchase. However I feel for the for poor bastards that do all the programing. Makes my head hurt thinking about how much code goes into some of the games I play. So if its a game i like (bf1942, bf.v, q3 etc) I buy it because I want them to keep makeing them.
Anyone notice how much openscource freeware thier is these days ?

[Coyote]

MX Unleashed is cool. MX vs ATV unleashed looks awesome, got to play it sometime

[inlinefour]

I'm well aware on how to copy, patch and run illegal software. But only on a computer and I only ever did when I was a poor student. These days you will not find any illegal copies or even a keygen
Please clarify though, can I have a 120 gig HDD and put it into a standard xbox or does it need modification to operate the HDD. I have a couple of 120 gig HDDs sitting around with nothing to do, but would not consider swapping one for the 8 gig microsoft xbox HDD until the 12 month warrenty is removed.

[Ghost Lemur]

excellent.
avis have some sweet v8 commodores for under $200 then!
you should nip down and get one!
as you say, bugger them and the rental agreement - it's a product purchased!

maybe you need to go to a bike rental company as well!!
you could get a sportsbike real cheap!

No a better analogy is buying a motorbike and then being told you're not allowed to put on an aftermarket can, or get more hp out of it because they want to force you to buy the next model when it's out.

Buying a product is NOT buying a licence to use (although if they have their way it will be). It's buying the product, how you choose to use it after the fact is up to you.

FYI I use Linux for many reasons. One of them (relating to this topic of conversation) being, MS's licence is unacceptable to me.

You're right about agreeing to a licence, but, how do you feel about someone agreeing to a licence on your behalf? When I got my laptop, I specifically said I didn't want windows on it, and that I did not agree to the EULA. Therefore under the terms of the EULA I should be able to return it for a full refund. I was told in no uncertain terms that they had already agreed to the EULA on my behalf.

Don't think I'm just bagging MS either. Apple are another company that repressively try dictating to their customers what they can and can't do with their purchased products.

Breaking a licence or infringing on copyright is not thieft. Don't believe me look up the legal definitions. Of course these companies who see people as nothing more than cash-cow consumers to milk dry will change that if they get their way. One of the few reasons I'm glad to live here is the lack of a lobby industry promoting companies over people. Also hope we never have a freetrade agreement with the US as the Aussies are finding the costs in having to adopt a US-style IP structure isn't worth it.

/rant part 2.

[Biff]

Although I'm a law abiding kinda guy I am able to differentiate between stealing from Micro$haft - a company that rips millions of people around the world off on a daily basis by creating a monopoly that's impossible to break, a company that's put thousands of people out of work because of the way in which they bundle things like media players, browsers and such like into their over bloated operating systems - resulting in tens of hundreds of companies folding over the years, a company that is currently being pursued by the legal systems on every continent of the world because of the way in which they conduct business, a company that pushes an operating system that are unstable, unreliable, open to malevolant attack and over priced - and common theft.

The sooner Micro$haft looses its position as the world largest software supplier and a chance is given for open source platforms to gain significant market share (which will create jobs) and smaller companies an opportunity to become viable the better in my book.

For arguement sake - let's just say the consumer is finally getting their own back.

[inlinefour]

No a better analogy is buying a motorbike and then being told you're not allowed to put on an aftermarket can, or get more hp out of it because they want to force you to buy the next model when it's out.

Buying a product is NOT buying a licence to use (although if they have their way it will be). It's buying the product, how you choose to use it after the fact is up to you.

FYI I use Linux for many reasons. One of them (relating to this topic of conversation) being, MS's licence is unacceptable to me.

You're right about agreeing to a licence, but, how do you feel about someone agreeing to a licence on your behalf? When I got my laptop, I specifically said I didn't want windows on it, and that I did not agree to the EULA. Therefore under the terms of the EULA I should be able to return it for a full refund. I was told in no uncertain terms that they had already agreed to the EULA on my behalf.

Don't think I'm just bagging MS either. Apple are another company that repressively try dictating to their customers what they can and can't do with their purchased products.

Breaking a licence or infringing on copyright is not thieft. Don't believe me look up the legal definitions. Of course these companies who see people as nothing more than cash-cow consumers to milk dry will change that if they get their way. One of the few reasons I'm glad to live here is the lack of a lobby industry promoting companies over people. Also hope we never have a freetrade agreement with the US as the Aussies are finding the costs in having to adopt a US-style IP structure isn't worth it.

/rant part 2.

These companies are taking it way too far and its more disturbing that society is allowing it to happen. I purchased XP Home brand new, OEM version and on the 3rd time of using the OS on my computer reformatting the HDD, I cannot activate the damn thing on the net because the key is now invalid. I personally think that this is the criminal activity! Who do microsoft think they are in limiting how many times I can reformat the computerfor whatever reasons (kids messing around with it, malware, spyware, viruses etc). Now I have to phone every time I want to activate the blardy thing again and thats after only using the damn thing on one computer!!! Personally I think its pretty low and illegal to be able to do this sort of thing to the people who use the products. Good on the people who use Linux, its a hell of alot cheaper! Should I need to reformat my computer again (and I suspect that I will), I'll be going back to good old Windows 98se, then I'll use it to my hearts content and on however many computers that I want