Constellation cancelled = UberEpic Fail. Yes orbo?

[Ixion]

In another place , at another time, another me is currently engaged in a mega debate about the cancellation of the Constellation project (which as you all know is the NASA project to return men to the moon - well you would know if you came out from under your rock).

The other place is predominantly populated by quite young people (say, under 30). Who are not bikers . The debate is at present vigorous (think WINJA vs Spudchucka vigorous), primarily based around two diametric axes.

One, represented by other me, is that Mr Obama cancelling Constellation should be regarded as an act of treason against the human race. And that. rather than cancelling it, it should be extended to encompass manned flight to the stars ( a number of promising Earth like planets having now been identified - and the only way to find out about them is to go and look). With a side argument that young people nowadays have become apathetic, materialistic, and totally lacking in imagination.

The other, represented by most others is that space travel is irrelevant, that we (meaning primarily the USA, but generally, humankind) cannot afford it, and that such ideas are impractical and (quote from one young man) "there is no need to do it so why bother" and that mr Obama should be congratulated on "being sensible".

Now, these sad young people are not bikers.

So, I have bethought myself to sound the sentiment of bikers on the matter, they being (as we all know) not merely the most intelligent of mortalkind, but also the most willing to extend the grace of greatness to the human capacity to dream

What say you? Is cancellation of Constellation a betrayal of the spirit that has raised mankind from the brute creation? Or is it a sensible reining in of a project that was awaste of money seeking to achieve results that were both meaningless and unnecessary.

(Oh, and I guess, are young people today , compared with thei elders - say those over 50 - lacking in imagination, fixated on money and overly materialistic ? Though i think all of those already proven)

Let the biker-mind speak.

[steve_t]

I'll probably get flamed but I'm a moon landing conspiracy theorist
So going "back" to the moon....

See my comments in the homeopathy thread

I'm all for venturing into the unknown to discover new things but also see the value in dedicating limited resources towards making the world we have a better one.

I agree with your suggestion that successive generations are becoming more "me me me, now now now". I can see the older folk wanting to advance all of mankind but the younger folk thinking "this doesn't and probably won't have any bearing on my life so why should I care?"

[slofox]

Ya reckon it'll rain on Sunday..?

[Slyer]

We should be focusing on finding a planet with unobtanium so we can mine it to death.
Or some other valuable resource, whatever it may be.

[Ixion]

Ya reckon it'll rain on Sunday..?

Shurrup. I know for a fact that you're not under 30, so you're buggering up my theory. Admit it, you're being channelled by your grandchildren , aren't you?

[pzkpfw]

Going back to the Moon (yes, back) didn't add a lot of value, other than practice for going further - so I don't mind that being cancelled.

On the other hand, "the stars" are really really far away. Like, very far. So the idea of sending people to "the stars" is pretty much science fiction and will stay that way for a while.

In-between, I think it's vital to get people living somewhere other than Earth (in case "the big one hits"). So the goal ought to be getting to Mars or some other planets' Moon or something, where we might be able to find a way to live.

Cancelling it all - that's a mistake.

At the very least there should be a long slow programme aimed at getting people, say, to Mars. Just something to keep the technologies ticking over, improving.

[Ixion]

The possibility of asteroid mining ahs been put forward in the other place .

And I think you just proved my secondary theory.

EDI. not you, him

[pzkpfw]

We should be focusing on finding a planet with unobtanium so we can mine it to death.
Or some other valuable resource, whatever it may be.

Getting anything, from there to here is so unbelievably expensive, that's just not practicable.

When people finally go out to, um, anywhere, it will usually be a one-way trip. The Mars colonists won't be going "home" to Earth for the holidays.

[Ixion]

Getting anything, from there to here is so unbelievably expensive, that's just not practicable.

When people finally go out to, um, anywhere, it will usually be a one-way trip. The Mars colonists won't be going "home" to Earth for the holidays.

Not if its a lump of rock it's not. Just adjust its orbit so that it splashes down into shallow(ish) water somewhere. Then use submarine mining to bring up the goodies.

But, realistically, why bring it home? Whqat the minerals would be wanted for, is to expand the progarm into space. So just build the ships in space, on the spot. Perfectly practical, just needs some money and some people with verve and guts.

[Slyer]

The possibility of asteroid mining ahs been put forward in the other place .

And I think you just proved my secondary theory.

You are right that I think we shouldn't go without trying to get something real back from the insane amount of money and time put into these expeditions.
Trying to settle on mars or something would be worthwhile, good practice for if we find a decent other place to live and invent some way to actually get there.
Understanding the universe more is always good, too.

I don't think we need to go into space again just because it is awesome, though.

I also support your space manufacturing venture.
Once we can build ships in space we can use those ships to build more ships to build ships in space.
Soon it will be Star Wars all over again.

[Slyer]

I think we need to put forth the idea of a death star to the Americans.
Got to build a death star before the Russians.

[Ixion]

One just knows that Mr Motu is going to turn this into a debate about the failure of capitalism to deliver on its promise of flying suck-hover blowy things,

[R6_kid:Me]

Reinstate it. Outsource the construction of sub-assembelies to poor third world countries but pay them decent money to do it. Get the whole world involved - not just NASA/USA/ESA. It's a project that can actually be used for the greater good of man if you think outside the box. Being big headed and elitist "we've done it before" isn't the way to go about it.

Anyway, the way we're going we're going to need a new planet soon because the current one is getting pretty beat up.

[ckai]

The problem with the space program is that NASA are bastards for using the government money to kill off competition. They'll undercut any company (generally well below their costs) so they can't get a foot in the door. They're grossly inefficient and would make any sensible person cringe at how they handle their money. But why should they be? It's not their money. It's given to them. It needs a major shack up if anyone wants to go further.

Yes it costs shit loads of money to go into space but if NASA sorted their shit out it would cost shit loads not loads.

Cancel the program? Not the full program but I reckon it should be more focused. One step at a time. When you've got that, move onto the next one.

steve, I'm kinda with you on the "landing". It wouldn't be the first time NASA has fudged things (that's just gossip though). But I can also kinda believe they did it.

Bottom line, the young don't give a shit at all about the moon or space. In saying that, finding ET would excite the young as much as landing on the moon did for the oldies.

[Motu]

I'm a dreamer,count me in.Like Ixion I grew up with the promise of space travel (and sucky blowies),it's where the human race is destined to go....and only the USA will take us there.I still read a lot of science fiction,and am currently reading a series by Elizabeth Moon,all about mankind in space...a whole new society....it's just the earth on a cosmic scale.Shame on Obama - stop making wars and put that money into space travel.....make generation ships and fill them with the population of China and the Middle East....send them into the unknown.