TAC writeoffs in Oz

[MSTRS:Me]

So, over to you. Choose Woodhouse. Or choose insurance. But you can't have both

*stamps feet in disgust*
But...but...but...
I still don't think it's right that someone can (knowingly) not take reasonable steps to protect their body, but still expect the rest of us to pay the extra costs that may entail.

[mashman]

*stamps feet in disgust*
But...but...but...
I still don't think it's right that someone can (knowingly) not take reasonable steps to protect their body, but still expect the rest of us to pay the extra costs that may entail.

Because that's the community way to do it. All for one, one for all etc...

[Miscreant]

I do draw the line at the gear stage, though. Not paying for m/c injuries is a step too far.

So why should it be your line? Why not my line, or the AAs line or ACCs line.
Thanks, but I prefer my line, because if I yield, some other bastard is going to impose theirs on me. You might find you don't like theirs.

[p.dath]

So why should it be your line? Why not my line, or the AAs line or ACCs line.
Thanks, but I prefer my line, because if I yield, some other bastard is going to impose theirs on me. You might find you don't like theirs.

The roading network is provided by the community of NZ for the use of the community of NZ. So it should be the communities line.

[Pascal]

Because that's the community way to do it. All for one, one for all etc...

Did you mean Communist? The community way would not be by force

[Ixion]

Did you mean Communist?

You called ?

[mashman]

Did you mean Communist? The community way would not be by force

heh! you can label it how you like. Personally i was thinking more along the lines of a hybrid... socialism and communism... anything that can level the playing field that doesn't involve capitalism and the associated trappings... profit for profit sake hampers human development, communication, breeds mistrust and by default the the notion of a global community goes right out of the window. Shit we're a species that's been around for thousands upon thousands of years... perhaps it's time that we acted like it, grew the fuck up and stopped the pursuit of individual gain at the expense of the "faceless" masses.

Pissing in the wind always kept my legs warm on a cold day...

[Pascal]

You called ?

Yes, but it was the wrong number. I was looking for a busty brunette.

heh! you can label it how you like. Personally i was thinking more along the lines of a hybrid... socialism and communism... anything that can level the playing field that doesn't involve capitalism and the associated trappings... profit for profit sake hampers human development, communication, breeds mistrust and by default the the notion of a global community goes right out of the window. Shit we're a species that's been around for thousands upon thousands of years... perhaps it's time that we acted like it, grew the fuck up and stopped the pursuit of individual gain at the expense of the "faceless" masses. .

Really? Damn. Then wouldn't you kill off individual responsibility, creativity, the drive to create and improve and all the competitive attributes that have driven humanity to the heights it has reached thus far?

[mashman]

Yes, but it was the wrong number. I was looking for a busty brunette.

Who says he isn't!!!

Really? Damn. Then wouldn't you kill off individual responsibility, creativity, the drive to create and improve and all the competitive attributes that have driven humanity to the heights it has reached thus far?

"Then wouldn't you kill off individual responsibility" - already being done from what i can tell, think laws.

"creativity" - already being hampered... how do you think you end up with 15 vacuums on the market (where the best one would actually do)... only to be replaced by another 15 next year, but with a single "upgrade" in technology that they could have put in in the previous version... Go on, tell me that doesn't happen.

"the drive to create and improve and all the competitive attributes that have driven humanity to the heights it has reached thus far" I somehow doubt we'll lose our competitive edge... you'll still be able to be the best if you want... as for the drive of humanity, we have massive issues on this planet that need resolving... Africa, terrorism, politicians, poverty, over population to name but a few... you really think we'll just stop caring enough to better our lot?

Technology is still exceptionally young... unfortunately it's expensive too... and the world only has a finite amount of money!

All of the reasons you have laid out would only benefit from a change in the direction of humanity... no?

[MSTRS:Me]

That all boils down to one word...'War'.
In all it's shapes and sizes, war is what drives human endeavour.

[Pascal]

All of the reasons you have laid out would only benefit from a change in the direction of humanity... no?

I don't think so. When you remove personal improvement as a driving force, how many people would continue to strive for it? How far ahead of the technology wave were the "communist" countries in the 80s? How much of what we see today was developed there?

[mashman]

I don't think so. When you remove personal improvement as a driving force, how many people would continue to strive for it? How far ahead of the technology wave were the "communist" countries in the 80s? How much of what we see today was developed there?

I didn't mention removing personal improvement did i? Why would anyone want personal improvement to never exist? Look we do this all the time, improve that is, hence the reason why people have hobbies... they don't get paid for them (not all the time anyway), some create art from recycled materials, some try to govern the country part-time, some send rockets into space etc... and i can't see that stopping... moreover I could see the "enthusiast" lifted to the heights of the "experts", or at least being consulted, instead of them being shat upon because they're not "qualified"...

[Pascal]

I didn't mention removing personal improvement did i? Why would anyone want personal improvement to never exist? Look we do this all the time, improve that is, hence the reason why people have hobbies... they don't get paid for them (not all the time anyway),

No, I did. I've lumped improving your life style, setting financial goals, material gratification, etc. as part of "personal improvement" as you're improving your personal situation in the world.

So, in this ideal world you're envisaging, how would we decide who gets to ride a shmexy Aprillia and who gets to ride a 250cc Virago? Or does everybody get an Aprillia and Viragos' cease to exist?

[sleemanj]

The other thing to consider with "no personal responsibility = no compensation" is the COST to society of such.

The most obvious is that if somebody is not compensated so they can get the injury properly treated, they will likely be a less productive member of society after that injury than before, or at least have less potential to be productive.

Simple example: young student riding his scooter gloveless bins and screws up his hands, ACC says no gloves, no pay, now this student instead of having the potential to be a world leading surgeon if that is what they had intended, is now perhaps limited to far less aspirational goal (if we take into account the preferences of the student for jobs).

Taking this further, unless we want to have a large number of poverty stricken people living on the streets, we end up with a continual rise in unemployment benefit recipients when these people who have been badly injured but couldn't afford to get themselves properly fixed are then unable to work, ever.

If we add in as Ixion points out the inevitable lawsuits, the money to pay for lawsuits doesn't come out of thin air - there is a net transferral of wealth to accident lawyers, this also is a fairly unpleasant cost to society (just look at the US where they really do have "ambulance chasing" laywers, literally - that's got to be right up there amongst the seriously farked up ways in which a society can treat it's unjured).

Put simply, while our gut instinct is "if you were stupid, well your own fault isn't it", the reality is that the economic and social cost to society is simply always going to be HIGHER with that thinking, than with an efficient no-fault compensation scheme.

[Pascal]

Put simply, while our gut instinct is "if you were stupid, well your own fault isn't it", the reality is that the economic and social cost to society is simply always going to be HIGHER with that thinking, than with an efficient no-fault compensation scheme.

So it boils down to paying for other people to do stupid things because it's cheaper?