Assaults on police and the penalty thereof

[freedom-wedge]

I'd give them fuck-off big guns like in Aus.
Mess with a Cop over there and you bleed.
End of issue.

I can see your point big Dave, but it should be different here, in Oz they have a system where you can test the law and get it changed, here we dont have that, I dont think were at the stage where a copper needs to have his hand on his iron just because he wants to ask you a few quiestions, I,m all for them defending them selves however, but look at our own rights regards self protection, and how they have been eroded, you have to walk a fine line, and they should to.

pedro

[Swoop]

So what if you did'nt know it was a cop!? You should'nt be bloody assaulting ANYBODY without reasonable cause (like they raped your mrs/whathaveyou)

If you un-wittingly beat up a cop, well, you reap what you sow there.........

I know it was;nt your intention, but your kinda taking the "criminals have rights" side here.

I was simply wondering about the 14yr old kid who came to the assistance of the off-duty officer in Tuakau. He had no idea that the guy was a cop.

Correct, people shouldn't be assaulting anyone. I have come to the assistance of an officer struggling with someone on the side of the motorway, so I'm not taking the "criminal rights" approach here.

If the powers that be wish to instigate a higher penalty for assaulting a policeman, then they had better specify that the officer must be in uniform.

[BoristheBiter]

I think hes trying to bring to light the state of inballance that exists today, there are wise and good police men and women, but many subscribe to the them and us thing also, one thing is for sure they will arrive much faster at a scene where they are already involved, ie and assualt on an officer, than for joe or jane public, just an obsevation, and when you need them you need them, they are required under the law to render assistance even to save us from our selves.

pedro

I had sort of guessed that was what he was meaning but with all this belly aching about this "there are god cops and bad cops" shit i have just about had enough.
What everyone fails to realise is that most cops deal with bad people all day long, and most people think a bad cop is one that gives them a ticket for speeding.
Some say it is the job they are paid to do and in some that is true, so if they are paid to give some one a ticket for speeding why does that make them a bad cop they are just doing their job.

[freedom-wedge]

I was simply wondering about the 14yr old kid who came to the assistance of the off-duty officer in Tuakau. He had no idea that the guy was a cop.

Correct, people shouldn't be assaulting anyone. I have come to the assistance of an officer struggling with someone on the side of the motorway, so I'm not taking the "criminal rights" approach here.


If the powers that be wish to instigate a higher penalty for assaulting a policeman, then they had better specify that the officer must be in uniform.

I think it would be just to hard to do that, they could change the law, so that as soon as they identified themselves as police a sterner line could be taken, but it would be open to abuse, i,m for the law protecting us all equally, not laws for police that differe from the those for the public

pedro

Good on ya for jumping in and helping that copper, thats the ballance we need not a them and us scenario

[CookMySock]

I think the police should be able to do their job without worrying about getting the smash. They aren't the military and we don't want them to be, so yes I suggest the penalty should be greater than for an assault on an ordinary citizen.

However,many of the cops have the knack of walking into a volatile situation and winding peoples' feelings up until someone makes an angry remark to them, and taking umbrage at that remark, and then provoking the situation further, and lo and behold they get a whack in the fucken head.

There is also the situation where bent cops rort the system to get what they want, or rather, get off what they want.

So there are two sides - one where they should be afforded respect because of the position they purport to carry (assisting the community) and two where a few of them just seem to want to pick fights.

So they have a problem and they want to fix it with legislation - whats new?

Steve

[freedom-wedge]

I had sort of guessed that was what he was meaning but with all this belly aching about this "there are god cops and bad cops" shit i have just about had enough.
What everyone fails to realise is that most cops deal with bad people all day long, and most people think a bad cop is one that gives them a ticket for speeding.
Some say it is the job they are paid to do and in some that is true, so if they are paid to give some one a ticket for speeding why does that make them a bad cop they are just doing their job.

totally agree with you on that

pedro

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Well said Boris & Pedro, couldn't agree more.

[CookMySock]

most people think a bad cop is one that gives them a ticket for speeding [...] if they are paid to give some one a ticket for speeding why does that make them a bad cop they are just doing their job.

Having been on the receiving end of the police, I can assure you that is not the complaint at all.

A fair ticket is a fair ticket, even if it doesn't feel fair. I have no problem with this. If grippers can't afford to be an arse on the road then they should slow down.

This is not a thread about poorly behaving police, so lets not make it into one. Start another thread.

Steve

[Ixion]

I'd give them fuck-off big guns like in Aus.
Mess with a Cop over there and you bleed.
End of issue.

Ah. So the answer to violence is more violence. And the guy who shoots first wins. Way to go.

I hope if you evey need the police you get told to fuck off.

Every time over the years when I've needed the cops (and a couple of times, I really needed them) I have been told to fuck off. So now I don't rely on them at all. They're not there to help ordinary people.

The problem isn't assaults on cops. That's just the inevitable result of a society that condones assault and violence generally. OK, a lot of that is down to the courts, whose mickey mouse sentences have for decades sent the message that giving people the bash is fine. So why not cops? How can it be a trivial misdemeanour to bash up the old lady (or old man) next door, but a serious offence to bash up a cop?.

Regardless of the failings of the judiciary, however, it's a bit hypocritical of the police to be complaining, when they themselves are part of the "violence is OK message". Their latest initiative , they don't even want to charge violators. Just give them a warning.

By all means, crack down on violence. But don't make some people into a priviledged elite. Because the counter side of that is that other people are deemed less worthy. Bash a cop? Oh, that's serious. Bash an old age pensioner? Oh, they're an inferior class, no penalty for bashing them, go right ahead. Justice is always shown blindfolded for a reason.

[Winston001]

There already exists an offence of "Assault upon a police officer in execution of his duty". From memory, the officer has to identify himself if in plain clothes. The proposal is that the maximum penalty be increased to 7 years and put on the Three Strikes list of serious offences.

The other proposal is that the offence be extended to all law enforcement personal, emergency services people, and possibly medical staff. So you'd have customs officers, firemen, ambos, and nurses etc given extra value by society. Works for me.

[Dave Lobster]

The other proposal is that the offence be extended to all law enforcement personal, emergency services people, and possibly medical staff. So you'd have customs officers, firemen, ambos, and nurses etc given extra value by society. Works for me.

That's a lot of people. Can the rest of us have a yellow star to wear, to identify ourselves to the more important?

[mashman]

Can the rest of us have a yellow star to wear, to identify ourselves to the more important?

eeeeeeeeek...

The other proposal is that the offence be extended to all law enforcement personal, emergency services people, and possibly medical staff. So you'd have customs officers, firemen, ambos, and nurses etc given extra value by society. Works for me.

That in itself would create a double standard... extra privileges for being on duty... but off duty... just the same as any other person... I can't see it working for some reason.

I would advocate the loosening of the law when it comes to self-defence for someone who works for the emergency services... i.e. they should be allowed to render someone unconscious, or use minimal? excessive force without having to go through the investigation ringer... I'd also like to see that sort of leniency given to teachers too.

[Mikkel]

Yes, assault on a policeman or policewoman while on duty - and provided that the officer in question is acting in accord with the police's powers and duties - should bring a higher punishment than a similar assault on a normal citizen.

If the cop is off-duty or behaving in an inappropriate manner there should be no such distinction.

E.g. If you were to have an altercation with a cop in relation to resisting an unlawful arrest, there should be no extra consideration given to the cop.

[imdying]

Sure, give them guns, that'll reduce the number of officers getting the bash. It won't however get to the core of the problem, so unless you're planning on letting Joe Bloggs carry and conceal, it won't help him.

[Big Dave]

>>So the answer to violence is more violence.<<

Yes.
Orwell may or may not have said: People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Regardless of who uttered it - they didn't have to deal with 'P' rage, Youth alcoholism and the current set of assault circumstances.

It's not 1965 any more, Dorothy.