111 system report

[Ixion]

Regardless of what the ticket revenue is the police are still funded the same amount. Ticket revenue is not returned to the police just the same as petrol tax isn't put back into the roads. Instead we have a world leading social welfare system, even though we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the developed world..... Go Figure!

Well, indirectly it is. LTSA fund a large part of road policing operations. The revenue from TONs, speed cameras (not "summonsed" or arrest offences) is credited to the LTSA budget . So the bigger that credit is, the more money LTSA have, and the bigger the amount they offer the police. Which enables the gubbermint to claim that police funding has increased, whilst general duties do a freeze.So indirectly it does go back to the police, just channeled through the LTSA.

[spudchucka]

Well, indirectly it is. LTSA fund a large part of road policing operations. The revenue from TONs, speed cameras (not "summonsed" or arrest offences) is credited to the LTSA budget . So the bigger that credit is, the more money LTSA have, and the bigger the amount they offer the police. Which enables the gubbermint to claim that police funding has increased, whilst general duties do a freeze.So indirectly it does go back to the police, just channeled through the LTSA.

The funds could equally come from any form of Govt revenue. The value of the revenue gathered through traffic enforcement is not reciprocated in Govt funding to the police. Regardless of how much money is gathered the police still get the amount agreed on in budgets.

[Ixion]

The funds could equally come from any form of Govt revenue. The value of the revenue gathered through traffic enforcement is not reciprocated in Govt funding to the police. Regardless of how much money is gathered the police still get the amount agreed on in budgets.

Agreed. What I'm saying is that the greater the amount of revenue from traffic policing the greater the likelihood (not certainty) that LTSA get a bigger budget. And if that happens they contract more hours from the police. Then the gubbermint look at the total police revenue, and because the extra LTSA hours have increased that, are reluctant to budget more for general duties.

It is correct that once the budget is settled the police get that regardless of how many or how few tickets they issue. So the "revenue" question is not going to be a factor for individual coppers , it makes no difference to them. When it comes to the Commissioner's office setting priorities that may be another matter. He who pays the pipe calls the tune, and in this case that's the LTSA.

[drummer]

Regardless of what the ticket revenue is the police are still funded the same amount. Ticket revenue is not returned to the police just the same as petrol tax isn't put back into the roads. Instead we have a world leading social welfare system, even though we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the developed world..... Go Figure!

petrol tax being put into roading... some people actually believe that...

Plus... why would the funding of police from or not from fines be relevent to the argument of revenue collecting?

[drummer]

a road block is a significant issue, you need to read the legislation before simply blocking the road.

Good grief.. are you saying that the police can't take all necessary steps to catch apprehenders? well if not... then the laws regarding this are an ass and need to be changed.

[drummer]

So all those 'warnings' got nowhere, never got throught to you??

I guess a couple of tickets after the first warning might have made the difference, I rest my case.

Again you miss the point... and make no case. What he was trying to get across was the mutual understanding that the police USED to have with the public... and therefore the public was more likely to assist and respect the police.

[scumdog]

Good grief.. are you saying that the police can't take all necessary steps to catch apprehenders? well if not... then the laws regarding this are an ass and need to be changed.

Go and ask a lawyer about the 'rights' arseholes (and the public at large) have and THEN ask that question about "taking all necessary steps"

Even you would have to admit that what is 'necessary' in the eyes of the public and what CAN be done are worlds apart, to protect the innocent - "Yeah right" (but then lawyers act as if everybody is innocent.)

[drummer]

Just shows how bad "I'm an above average driver" Mr Joe Bloggs really is, too dumb to focus on the repercussions of crossing the centreline!!

How do you guage how effective policing the roads really is? - I suppose taking ALL police off the roads for a week would do it, just watch the toll rise then.!

Until they find a better way it'll just have to be 'revenue gathering' as usual, nobody in any country has found a less expesive/more effective way of keeping a lid on the (generally) unnecessary road-toll.


Education and a more difficult test with a higher learning to drive age could be better but then the "Too Hard" bleaters would be in on the act.

I agree with a higher age for learner drivers... but heres one issue as yet undiscussed... who votes labour here? Any police? Well you are supporting a party that is consistantly overlooking issues of safety. two in particular are the abolition of driving tests for seniors, and the consistant refusal to make cell phone use illegal in cars. very rider here knows full well the danger of drivers using cellphones. Every rider here knows the danger from seniors who don't look or don't have fast enough reactions. So to the police reps here... don't preach to me about road safety if you support the current regime.

[scumdog]

Again you miss the point... and make no case. What he was trying to get across was the mutual understanding that the police USED to have with the public... and therefore the public was more likely to assist and respect the police.

And if the public DON'T assist police? then generally it is the public that suffer. (If they haven't killed themselves first by riding like dicks 'cos they have no fear of repercussions for their breaches of the law.

Mutual understanding? pah!
In your dreams sunshine!!!

In todays world if somebody got a heap of warnings without penalties what difference would it make to their offending? None, and probably if they killed themselves their parents would sue the police 'cos if they had been harder on little Johnny he might have worn his helmet/slowed down whatever.

Nice troll all the same

[scumdog]

I agree with a higher age for learner drivers... but heres one issue as yet undiscussed... who votes labour here? Any police? Well you are supporting a party that is consistantly overlooking issues of safety. two in particular are the abolition of driving tests for seniors, and the consistant refusal to make cell phone use illegal in cars. very rider here knows full well the danger of drivers using cellphones. Every rider here knows the danger from seniors who don't look or don't have fast enough reactions. So to the police reps here... don't preach to me about road safety if you support the current regime.

Wow, there's a whole nest of lines with lures on the end of them attached to this post!!!!!!

Having said that I suggest a relocation to a country where police and governments do exactly what pleases you is in order - or readmittance to the real world.

[drummer]

Do you go fishing?

Do you ever catch ALL the fish?

If the cops are at the same place every day and night, (a known boy racer spot for instance) how often do you think they would catch an offender? What do you think the boy racers reaction to the polcie presence would be?

How many police do you think there are? How do you reasonably expect them to be everywhere that YOU think they should be?

heres an idea for you and your colleagues. I read recently about community volinteers. They patrolled known hotspots and reported crime. Howabout this... establish a crack squad of "boy racer" officers. they could be established for each area.. Akl Wgtn etc. As soon as the volinteers report in the police swoop... not is siren sounding squad cars but by stealth. unmarked cars and bikes... block the road and book the lot. If this currently can't be done... then the law must be changed and funding approved... but I will not hold my breath under the scum we call the current Government.

[drummer]

Mutual understanding? pah!
In your dreams sunshine!!!

really? i wonder how old you are... i remember when the police and public DID have that understanding.

[drummer]

Wow, there's a whole nest of lines with lures on the end of them attached to this post!!!!!!

Having said that I suggest a relocation to a country where police and governments do exactly what pleases you is in order - or readmittance to the real world.

So you vote Labour then.

[Ixion]

And if the public DON'T assist police? then generally it is the public that suffer. (If they haven't killed themselves first by riding like dicks 'cos they have no fear of repercussions for their breaches of the law.

Mutual understanding? pah!
In your dreams sunshine!!!

In todays world if somebody got a heap of warnings without penalties what difference would it make to their offending? None, and probably if they killed themselves their parents would sue the police 'cos if they had been harder on little Johnny he might have worn his helmet/slowed down whatever.

Nice troll all the same

Well, I know that when I was learning to ride, one of the local snakes was bloody brilliant about keeping an eye on young riders. And many a time he pulled me up with a "You're not going to get a ticket, but I want to talk to about some stuff that's going to cause you grief if you continue". Then a lecture, and often a bollocking. And he didn't mince his words either!

He gave me two official warnings. Yes I sure did take notice of them. Never did that stuff again (one was for wheelying - on a BSA Bantam!). Never done another intentional wheelie on the road.

Gave me a ticket for no WOF on the 3TA and made me push it all the way home, too. Made sure I had a warrant after that.

He wasn't a total soft touch though, did one mate for speed dangerous (on a bike) , and another for careless driving. And assorted speeding tickets (I never got one - like I said I took what he told me seriously)

Colossal props to that snake, I reckon that sure as he saved my life a few times over the years. He'd be over 70 now, I hope he's still riding , either here or in Another Place.

So yeah, people do take notice of warnings. Maybe you have become a bit over-cynical ?

Clarification: The reason I listened to him was not because I feared him. It was because he was willing to take the time to help young riders (like me). When he said "whatyou're doing is this, the reason why that's a bad idea is thus, what I want to see you doing is that" we all took notice. It wasn't all "law breaking stuff" either, often as not (more often ) it was general pointers, the sort of thing we're talking about on this site. We figured that if someone who had the skills and training he did was willing to point us in the right direction, only an idiot would not listen. Those snakes were formidable riders.

[drummer]

Colossal props to that snake, I reckon that sure as he saved my life a few times over the years. He'd be over 70 now, I hope he's still riding , either here or in Another Place.

So yeah, people do take notice of warnings. Maybe you have become a bit over-cynical ?

hey... that understanding apparently never existed according to scumdog.