Give way rule to change

[R-Soul]

yes but nothing smaller than a 50cal

Guns, no rules and no signs.

Throw in no roadworthy vehicles and you have Johannesburg...

[Balding Eagle]

One thing that would improve movement vehicles on our clogged up roads would be the ability to turn left on Red lights so long as there was no traffic to impede that move. (Treat it as a STOP sign.) The Americans have been doing it quite successfully for at least 40 years. I heard it suggested to a Minister of Transport some 25 or so years ago and the dickwit thought that the NZ driver could not cope with it. Was probably thinking about himself as usual. Even the Mexicans in the US of A can get it right most of the time so why shouldn't we.

[howdamnhard]

About time you guys changed to the proper way of doing things (disclaimer: I'm from Aus )

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...to-change-Govt

It's a good idea and is what I was used to, unfortuneatly it's going to be carnage until everyone adjusts to it. Not good when your already more vulnerable on a bike and cage drivers already are pretty clueless at intersections-Yay !

[kwaka_crasher]

One thing that would improve movement vehicles on our clogged up roads would be the ability to turn left on Red lights so long as there was no traffic to impede that move. (Treat it as a STOP sign.) The Americans have been doing it quite successfully for at least 40 years. I heard it suggested to a Minister of Transport some 25 or so years ago and the dickwit thought that the NZ driver could not cope with it. Was probably thinking about himself as usual. Even the Mexicans in the US of A can get it right most of the time so why shouldn't we.

I'm with him. NZers are not capable of making sound choices.

Since this thing erupted (again) I've been paying special attention to the what/where/how/why of uncontrolled intersections to see what the problems are. My conclusions are that the only problems are caused by:

1. drivers not turning left from the left side of the lane, but from the middle or
2. drivers not turning right from the right side of the lane, but from the middle or
3. ignorance of the GIVE WAY rule
4. drivers not indicating early enough

which basically amounts to drivers being in the wrong place on the road for the manouvre and not being clear about their intentions. So it comes back to driver training. Nothing else. Drivers that are completely oblivious to anything other than their own little world and no awareness of other vehicles on the road until it's too late.

No amount of road rule changes will fix that.

[Mom]

It's a good idea and is what I was used to, unfortuneatly it's going to be carnage until everyone adjusts to it. Not good when your already more vulnerable on a bike and cage drivers already are pretty clueless at intersections-Yay !

I sat behind a driver this morning that was confused about the give way rules as they stand now. His incompetence held up a huge number of vehicles while he provaricated about who actually had the right of way. No one was prepared to move while he sat there creeping forward then braking hard from time to time. Eventually he made his mind up as to who had right of way and hauled out into the path of a friggen truck! He got it wrong. Thankfully no one hurt, but a few people were left shaking their heads and I am picking that the truck driver may well have required a change of underwear when he got back to base. As bikers we have enough issues around being seen anyway. It is not going to be anybetter if a rule change happens. We are going to be even more vulnerable than we are now.

I dont think they should change it. Sure we are "special" and the only country that has this left turn give way rule, but it was brought in for a reason. There were some terrible accidents on open roads where a car that was turning right off a road had to give way to one turning left, getting hit from behind.

[Berries]

I dont think they should change it. Sure we are "special" and the only country that has this left turn give way rule, but it was brought in for a reason. There were some terrible accidents on open roads where a car that was turning right off a road had to give way to one turning left, getting hit from behind.

If a rural intersection is busy enough that you have two cars wanting to turn in at the same time then it should have localised widening to allow vehicles to pass those waiting. In an ideal world that is. While the rule may have originally been brought in for the reasons stated all it did was change who was going to get hit from behind. Now the left turner is at risk while he gives way to the right turner, who may have to wait anyway for oncoming traffic not turning, so the left turner is actually at risk for a longer period of time. I can only see benefits, on both urban and rural roads.

Those confused now will be the same people who will be confused when the rules change. Motorbikes will always be vulnerable at intersections. Never trust the bastards.

[Badjelly]

There were some terrible accidents on open roads where a car that was turning right off a road had to give way to one turning left, getting hit from behind.

As opposed to the terrible accidents on open roads where a car that was turning right off a road had to give way to one going straight through, getting hit from behind?

[Badjelly]

One thing that would improve movement vehicles on our clogged up roads would be the ability to turn left on Red lights so long as there was no traffic to impede that move. (Treat it as a STOP sign.) The Americans have been doing it quite successfully for at least 40 years. I heard it suggested to a Minister of Transport some 25 or so years ago and the dickwit thought that the NZ driver could not cope with it. Was probably thinking about himself as usual. Even the Mexicans in the US of A can get it right most of the time so why shouldn't we.

I dimly recall there was a trial of it in the late 1980s. Perhaps not. At the time it was discussed (or tried) I had just come back from 4 years in Colorado, so I was pretty familiar with it. I wasn't that keen on it, actually. It does create problems for cyclists and pedestrians. Cyclists because when you're going straight ahead and you stop to the right(*) of the other traffic you're obstructing the right(*) turners, who tend not to like it. Pedestrians if you're crossing in front of the right(*) turners, they should give way to you, but often don't. Just my US$0.02 worth.

(*) left here

[Bikemad]

yes you are correct badjelly..................trialed here in the 80s............dont know why it wasnt adopted full time

[R-Soul]

I had a bit of an experience last sunday on the regular sunday ride north of auckland. A car was approaching and had its indicator on. I started turning in front of it, as it was slowing down. It then hooted and flashed its headlights at mas if I was doing something wrong.

One of the other riders told me afterwards that there is a second left turn soon after that the car was probably indicating for. Now some will say that I should have seen this. But it begs the question: How do you know a car is turning left THERE, and not into a driveway after it, or a dairy car park or something?

Now in my opinion, any law that requires mind-reading to avoid an accident is a non-starter. How the hell it even made it into the boooks is beyond me...


And as for the using teh left turn at a traffic light as a stop sign - the cars would still stop an have to look for cyclists anyway, so it would be safer than at a green light where the dont stop, they just turn....

[Sentox]

With that picture came the horrifying realisation that I've had the wrong idea about T-intersections for a long time now I guess it doesn't come into play much because most of them have give-way signs from the offroad that take precedence, but still. I've always waited from the car to turn off the main road in front of me, and I've never seen a car that will wait for you to turn onto the main road first on any unmarked T. Weird.

[quickbuck]

With that picture came the horrifying realisation that I've had the wrong idea about T-intersections for a long time now I guess it doesn't come into play much because most of them have give-way signs from the offroad that take precedence, but still. I've always waited from the car to turn off the main road in front of me, and I've never seen a car that will wait for you to turn onto the main road first on any unmarked T. Weird.

So, it's you!!!
You are the one who I sit there for bloody ages for you to move.... then I go anyway, thinking "What a Muppet".
Na, jokes.

You are not the only one there Sentox, it is one of those rules that is poorly understood.
Also, as there is a large portion of people who don't understand, it ends up being the one with the most balls wins.... Or, might has right....
A careful motorcyclists ends up waiting until full eye contact is made and body language understood before proceeding, regardless of the rules in this case.

[Badjelly]

So, it's you!!!
...You are not the only one there Sentox, it is one of those rules that is poorly understood.

But several KBers keep telling us that the rules in question are so simple (which they undeniably are) that they must be easy to understand (which they apparently aren't).

My new theory: people don't think in terms of rules when they're driving so much as patterns. It's only when the patterns have been disrupted (and often not even then) that they go back to the rules to try to figure things out. And they get it wrong.

[bogan]

But several KBers keep telling us that the rules in question are so simple (which they undeniably are) that they must be easy to understand (which they apparently aren't).

My new theory: people don't think in terms of rules when they're driving so much as patterns. It's only when the patterns have been disrupted (and often not even then) that they go back to the rules to try to figure things out. And they get it wrong.

Yeh theres a number of situtaions that people don't seem to manage (i spose these are out of the normal patterns), unmarked T intersections, turning right at dual laned intersections, turning right from a give way onto T intersection after a flush median on the open road (I dont actually know what the law is there), indicating before lane changing, stopping at orange lights....

[MSTRS:Me]

You forgot Roundabouts...