Honda CBR1000R5 - I got a lemon...

[crazylittleshit]

Thats bullshit They better give you a new bike

[WINJA]

I think they don't care about the negative impact that single customer can generate to a huge company such as Honda. Furthermore they think I am just a clueless foreigner. Well they are wrong.
What they appear to misunderstand that this kind of attitude was quite true before the Internet. How many bikers have read this thread? More than I have expected, I have to say. That's great.

SINGLE CUSTOMER MY ARSE IF YOU DONT GET A RESULT POST THE DEALERS NAME AND NUMBER HERE ALONG WITH THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE YOU DEAL WITH AND I ALONG WITH OTHERS HERE ARE AT KB WOULD BE HAPPY TO CALL THE DEALER AND REGISTER OUR DISSATISFACTION WITH SITUATION , POWER OF THE PEOPLE MIGHT WORK , THINK OF 30 CALLS A DAY FROM PISSED OFF BIKERS

[Blakamin]

IF YOU DONT GET A RESULT POST THE DEALERS NAME AND NUMBER HERE ALONG WITH THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE YOU DEAL WITH AND I ALONG WITH OTHERS HERE ARE AT KB WOULD BE HAPPY TO CALL THE DEALER AND REGISTER OUR DISSATISFACTION WITH SITUATION ,

I never thought I'd say this, but I AGREE TOTALLY!!!! and would be one of the callers!

[SPORK]

SINGLE CUSTOMER MY ARSE IF YOU DONT GET A RESULT POST THE DEALERS NAME AND NUMBER HERE ALONG WITH THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE YOU DEAL WITH AND I ALONG WITH OTHERS HERE ARE AT KB WOULD BE HAPPY TO CALL THE DEALER AND REGISTER OUR DISSATISFACTION WITH SITUATION , POWER OF THE PEOPLE MIGHT WORK , THINK OF 30 CALLS A DAY FROM PISSED OFF BIKERS

Holy crap man, you're not meant to be making valuable comments! Good on ya!

[Waylander]

Hell if this is something Blakamin and WINJA can agree on then I'm in aswell. Had to put up with shit of my own between a Yammy dealership awhile back luckily they came around so it didn't go to courts.

[onearmedbandit]

Re what WINJA said. I know of a story in America about a guy who took his relatively new 1000cc sportsbike into the franchise dealer to get his tyres changed. Came back to discover the head mechanic, with the dealership owner knowing, had performed a burnout on his old tyre. A lot of people on the forum said forget about it, no major damage done. But those who understood (and there are over 45,000 members at this site) bombarded the dealership with phone calls, e-mails and personal visits. Owners attitude quickly changed from 'fuck off' to 'how can I make this right?' Give it a try. But in this case, I believe anyone approaching this dealer needs to know the full story, otherwise it will do more damage than good to your chances of a happy result.

JMHO.

[ams67]

Ok, here is the story. I gave my CBR1000 to the HONDA DEALER the 18st of April 2005, because the Honda Distributor wants to inspect it. The Honda dealer told me that it will take a couple of days... Yeah, all right!...
The names have been changed for obvious reasons...

NOTE: THE FOLLOWING ARE ALL EMAILS SENT AND RECEIVED FROM/TO THE HONDA DISTRIBUTION MANAGER. PLEASE START FROM THE BOTTOM TO GET THE RIGHT SEQUENCE.
----------------------------------

HERE IS THE LETTER I RECEIVED FROM THE GENERAL MANAGER HONDA DISTRIBUTION. HERE IS WHERE HE TURNED ME INTO A LIAR AND 'CLUTCH ABUSER':

" Dear Mr Antonio,

I am aware of the correspondence between you and my National Technical Manager regarding your CBR1000R5 purchased from HONDA DEALER on 18 Nov 04. We regret any inconvenience you have experienced with your bike and we have conducted a full and thorough investigation of the faults you reported as quickly as possible.

We have identified a defect in the main wiring harness on the motorcycle and this harness will be replaced under warranty. This fault took much investigation due to the intermittent nature of the fault and it is likely to have caused the original illumination fault of the fuel injector warning light when you first purchased the bike, and some 7,000 km later, the RPM limitation fault experienced recently.

Regarding the engine noise, we have inspected, rebuilt, and road tested the engine. We also have identified a slight 'ticking' noise from the upper left hand side of the engine which is only evident at 100 deg C. We are of the opinion that this slight noise is a resident noise of no concern and is not considered unusual. As we have not been informed of any problems with this motor by Honda Japan, we will not be suggesting any further action be taken to attempt to eliminate this noise.

Regarding the clutch failure, we will be sending this clutch to Japan for technical investigation, but our observations are that the clutch outer plates are ‘oily’ as expected, and the burning and dryness of the inner plates was caused by incorrect operator usage, and not from any design defect - we are not aware of any related problems with CBR1000R clutches and we stand by the design. Accordingly, we have replaced the modified clutch hub with a standard item.

Regarding the reported side stand failure, we have inspected the side stand and we confirmed the stiff nut on the side stand pivot bolt, once loosened, could not be undone further by hand - this nut could not have become loose during use. Further, there was no evidence of any damage to the bolt or any fretting of the mating surfaces, which would be evident if the side stand were loose. It is our opinion that the side stand was and is in perfect working order and the bike collapsing off the side stand when parked on gravel is an operator, and not a design issue. We note CBR1000RR models are known to require careful use of the side stand due to their fairly delicate balance. We also note that we have replaced the damaged left hand fairing at our own cost as a goodwill gesture.
The wiring loom is expected to arrive in country 17 May 05, and our Technical Department will complete the work under warranty and advise HONDA DEALER when your motorcycle is ready for pick up.

Yours sincerely,

General Manager (honda distributor)

----
From: [mailto:Antonio]
Sent: Tue 10-May-05 17:20
To: HONDA DISTRIBUTOR
Cc:
Subject: RE: Mr 's CBR1000RR


B,

Please find attached the pictures of my 'dried' clutch as requested.
I tried to contact Jason (the guy who helped me with the side stand). It appears he is back to England as his mother died. I do not know when/if will be back.

Regards
Antonio



-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:HONDA DISTRIBUTOR]
Sent: Tue 10-May-05 17:20
To: Antonio
Cc:
Subject: RE: Mr 's CBR1000RR


Antonio,

The GM is waiting for the results of the technical investigation before he considers the most appropriate resolution, but we have not yet fully resolved the problem. I can appreciate your need for an early resolution therefore this email has been passed to him for his consideration noting your timeframe for resolving this issue as detailed below.

Regards,

HONDA DISTRIBUTOR

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio
Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2005 4:21 p.m.
To: HONDA DISTRIBUTOR
Cc: HONDA DEALER
Subject: RE: Mr 's CBR1000RR

B,
Thanks for the update on the bike.
I am disappointed that you are unable to provide an update on discussions with regard to overall remediation.

On Friday 6 May, I wrote the following:
“ You also explained that any remediation to address my concerns must be addressed by the General Manager of HONDA DISTRIBUTOR.

I believe I have reason to claim that this particular bike has not been put right within a reasonable time frame and I request that you consider a refund of my purchase price in full or at least a replacement bike. “

My concern is that this bike has not been put right in a reasonable time frame.

It has been close to 4 weeks that you have held this bike, and indicate that it will be next week at the earliest before repairs are complete. Based on the history to date, I am not convinced that this will be the end to the problems with this particular machine. There is no clear answer as to why the clutch failed after 3,500km, and there is a persistent noise which cannot be rectified.

For much of the period you have held my bike, I had an inferior, rusty Suzuki 250 as a loaner, and although I have the CBR600RR at the moment, HONDA DEALER are asking me to return it tomorrow. They are proposing a Honda Transalp next.

My greatest concern is to understand by the end of this week whether your General Manager has made a decision about a refund. I would still consider a replacement bike if we could reach agreement on this. I believe this is the most appropriate solution to my concerns. If we haven’t reached some form of agreement by the end of the week I will have to look at other options for resolution. The history of this bike leads me to believe that there should be redress under the Consumer Guarantees Act.

I look forward to your response.
Regards,
Antonio

_____

From: [mailto:HONDA DISTRIBUTOR]
Sent: Tuesday, 10 May 2005 2:11 p.m.
To: Antonio
Cc: HONDA DEALER
Subject: RE: Mr 's CBR1000RR

Antonio,

Please find below a progress report on your CBR1000RR:

After some exhaustive testing we have reproduced what turned out to be an intermittent electrical fault. The problem appears to have been with the integrity of the earth wires in the main wiring harness. The fault has most likely been there since manufacture and we suspect may also have caused the bikes initial electrical problem you talked of shortly after purchase.

We have ordered a new harness in from Belgium at priority and anticipate parts will be here over the weekend (Australia have never held stock of this item and Japan have no stock).

I will advise early next week when your bike is ready and I hope HONDA DEALER's CBR600RR loan bike is going well.

Regards,
HONDA DISTRIBUTOR

-----Original Message-----
From: Honda Distributor
Sent: 06 May 2005 13:35
To: 'Antonio '
Cc: HONDA DEALER
Subject: RE: Mr 's CBR1000RR

Antonio,
Thank you Antonio.

We will know more later on this afternoon, but you are correct in that the fault appears to be linked to the side stand electrical circuit. You also indicated today that this new fault appears to be not be the same as the fuel injector problem experienced when you first brought the bike.

I will pass this e-mail to the GM.

Regards,

HONDA DISTRIBUTOR

[ams67]

Ok, here is the story. I gave my CBR1000 to the HONDA DEALER the 18st of April 2005, because the Honda Distributor wants to inspect it. The Honda dealer told me that it will take a couple of days... Yeah, all right!...
The names have been changed for obvious reasons...

PLEASE START FROM THE BOTTOM TO GET THE RIGHT SEQUENCE. [/B] [/U]
To be continued...
__
From: [mailto:HONDA DISTRIBUTOR]
Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2005 2:45 p.m.
To: Antonio
Subject: RE: Mr 's CBR1000RR

Thanks Antonio,

Point 1. Noted.
Point 3. Noted.
Point 4. The holes were a one-off field fix to assist getting your bike back on the road in a timely manner. At the time it was considered the best option to ensure adequate cooling lubrication was supplied to the clutch. This action has not been necessary on any other CBR1000RRs that I am aware of and is not required for your bike either.

Regards,

HONDA DISTRIBUTOR

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio
Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2005 2:28 p.m.
To: Honda DISTRIBUTOR
Cc: HONDA DEALER
Subject: RE: Mr 's CBR1000RR

B,

Thanks for clarifying your understanding about the conversation. I am happy with most of your points. Using your numbering I am listing points I wish to clarify:

1. I followed the manual and nowhere did it state any requirement other than 96 octane or above.

3. By the time you saw the clutch, Timaru Honda had replaced the clutch plates and facilitated the oil circulation, so I am not surprised that only normal wear was visible.

4. What would have been his reason for drilling additional oil circulation holes?

I look forward to meeting with you at 10 am tomorrow.
Regards
Antonio



------From:
[mailto:HONDA DISTRIBUTOR]
Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2005 12:48 p.m.
To: Antonio
Cc: HONDA DEALER;
Subject: RE: Mr 's CBR1000RR

Antonio,
Thank you for your e-mail. Sorry for the delay in responding. I have a slightly different recollection of our discussion; but only in parts. My account of our discussion is as below:

1. I said the exhaust valves have been found to be have carbon build up and the compression ratios were measured to be evenly down as a result. I said this may be a result of the impurities in NZ's 96 octane fuel and that 98 octane fuel is a preferred octane. You said you try to get 98 octane when you can but that there are not many outlets in the South Island.

2. I said the BWH Race Team mechanic, after inspecting and rebuilding engine, has identified a slight 'ticking' noise from the upper left hand side, which is only evident at 100 deg C. He is of the opinion that this slight noise is of no consequence and is a resident noise and it is not considered unusual.

3. I said we had replaced the clutch centre. I did not say we "replaced the entire clutch". However, my discussions with the Race Mechanic has subsequently identified that he found no fault with the clutch plates (they had normal wear and were slightly oily as expected), and that he re-fitted the plates, but replaced the modified clutch centre with a standard one.

4. You stated the Honda Timaru mechanics found that a lack of oil circulating to the plates was the underlying cause and that was their reason for drilling the extra holes for oil circulation. I did say that it is not clear why there would have been a lack of oil to the clutch given that we are not aware of similar problems with the CBR1000RR clutch in NZ or Australia. I did say that at this stage I must also consider other possible causal factors such as defective clutch plates. I did say I would speak to the Timaru mechanic who worked on the failed clutch to assist my understanding and I have done this. He recalled there was glazing of the clutch pads, but no signs of overheating on the metal plates.

5. You did advise me of the cracked fairing due to a loose side stand.
6. We did discus other issues you had with the bike such as the need to replace the shim within the first week of purchase, the faulty brake light switch. Although I don't doubt this occurred, you did not mention an early report to Cycle Spot of the fuel injection light coming on.
7. I suggested that as we are confident in the motorcycle, that HONDA DISTRIBUTOR would provide an extended 12 month warranty on the bike. I do not recall you making any comment on the suitability or otherwise of this option.
8. At my request we agreed to meet to discuss your issues at 10:00am Friday 6 May 05 at our HONDA DISTRIBUTOR Head Office.



One thing we didn't discuss is that we will also be replacing the damaged LH fairing at our cost. Your bike will be ready for pick up by HONDA DEALER this afternoon.

I hope this clarifies our discussion and I look forward to our meeting.

Regards,

HONDA DISTRIBUTOR

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio
Sent: Thursday, 5 May 2005 8:59 a.m.
To: HONDA DISTRIBUTOR
Cc: HONDA DEALER
Subject: FW: Mr 's CBR1000RR

B,

I thought it would be useful to confirm my understanding of our discussion yesterday.
1. The valves have been found to be 'carbonized'. You believe this to be the result of not using 98 octane fuel. I have always used a minimum of 96 octane fuel as specified in the user manual.
2. You have been able to identify the 'ticking' noise once the engine has warmed up as I had reported to you. You acknowledged that you do not understand the cause of this noise. You suggested that this is not a real issue.
3. You have recognized that there were problems with the clutch as you have replaced the complete clutch. You acknowledged that you do not understand the cause of the problem, but suggested that there may have been something like faulty clutch plates. I confirmed that the Honda Timaru mechanics found that a lack of oil circulating to the plates was the underlying cause. That was their reason for drilling the extra holes for oil circulation.
4. I reminded you of the cracked fairing due to loose the side stand which was witnessed by members of my motorcycle club.
5. We discussed the other issues I had with the bike such as the need to replace the shim within the first week of purchase, the faulty brake light switch, an early report to HONDA DEALER of the fuel injection light coming on.
6. You suggested that the warranty of the bike could be extended but I replied that there is limited value to me from this.
7. You agreed to set up a meeting to discuss my issues face to face.

If you feel I have misrepresented anything we discuss last night, please let me know.

Regards

Antonio

_____ From: Antonio
Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2005 3:32 p.m.
To: 'HONDA DISTRIBUTOR'
Cc: HONDA DEALER
Subject: FW: Mr 's CBR1000RR

B,

Grant has forwarded your email to me and I have a couple of questions to ask you.

When you say that Dave is the best person to determine IF THERE ARE problems with my bike, do you mean that having the clutch fried due to a lack of oil in the inner clutch hub after just 3,500Km on the is not a problem?

Do you also mean that having the head opened inside a week of the purchase and having the shim replaced is not a problem?

The audible ticking sound heard by John at HONDA DEALER not a problem?

I would appreciate a better understanding of your definition of a problem.

Regards
Antonio


From: [mailto:HONDA DEALER]
Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2005 2:47 p.m.
To: Antonio
Subject: FW: Mr 's CBR1000RR

-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:HONDA DISTRIBUTOR]
Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:50 p.m.
To: HONDA DEALER
Cc:
Subject: Mr 's CBR1000RR

Thanks G. for the CGA information.

We have contracted in our best CBR1000RR mechanic to this problem. Dave is Jared's CBR1000RR race team mechanic. Jared is one of BWH's sponsored riders. Dave is a busy man and his time is hard to get and he has started the work already and will be finished mid next week which is the earliest we can do.

We regret any inconvenience but Steve has told me he informed THE HONDA DEALER the bike should only be obtained from Mr at a convenient time so I assume this was the case.

We have confidence Dave is the best person to determine if there are any problems with Mr 's bike and we will keep you informed of progress. Feel free to pass this information to Mr Antonio.
Regards,
Honda Distributor
-----Original Message-----
From: Honda Dealer
Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2005 1:20 p.m.
To: Honda Distributor
Cc:
Subject: FW: Faulty or defective vehicles

-----Original Message-----
From: Antonio
Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2005 12:01 p.m.
To: XXXXXXXX(Honda Dealer)
Subject: Faulty or defective vehicles

Hi G.
Here is the link as requested.
http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/c...st-15-Dec.html

One more thing. If Honda did not find anything wrong with my bike why do they need it for an other week?

I am really sick of the 'vacuum' cleaner with two wheels.

Cheers
Antonio
PS. Please keep me informed...

[ams67]

----Original Message-----
From: Antonio
Sent: Friday, 6 May 2005 12:33 p.m.
To:
Cc: HONDA DEALER
Subject: RE: Mr 's CBR1000RR

B,

Sorry I could not get your postponement message in time, but I appreciated being able to meet with you anyway.
I would like to confirm my understanding of the cause of the issue I experienced when I went to take delivery of the bike yesterday.

When I was checking out the bike at HONDA DEALER yesterday, G. and I discovered, while the bike was still on the stand, that the injection system was cutting out the power at about 5k rpm.

This morning at HONDA DISTRIBUTOR the mechanic identified a possible cause as an electrical short somehow related to the side stand switch.

I am awaiting confirmation that this is the cause of the problem.

From my perspective this is just another of a continual series of serious faults I have experienced with this bike.

I had already lost confidence in the quality and reliability of this particular bike. This new issue has destroyed any last vestiges of confidence.

You have explained to me that you are happy to fix problems when they occur but I now anticipate that with this particular bike the problems will continue at an unacceptable rate. I am also concerned that the reliability/longevity of the engine may have been compromised by the problems already experienced.

You also explained that any remediation to address my concerns must be addressed by the General Manager of Honda Ditributor.

I believe I have reason to claim that this particular bike has not been put right within a reasonable time frame and I request that you consider a refund of my purchase price in full or at least a replacement bike.

Regards
Antonio

[Ms Piggy]

Welcome to our world ams67 - I hopem you get this all sorted. Good on ya for keeping a record of everything. I would definitely go to the Consumers Institute if I was you. All the best!

[WINJA]

I GOT REAL ANGRY READING THAT AND ITS NOT EVEN MY BIKE.
I JUST TOOK A K5 GSXR1000 FOR A SPIN , QUITE NICE, BUT EVEN A GSXR1000K4 IS BETTER THAN WHAT YOU HAVE AND AT 18K NEW A BARGAIN TRADE IT IN THEN TELL THE DEALER YOU TRADED IT TO THAT IT HAS WARRANTY ISSUES THAT HAVE TO BE DISCUSSED WITH HONDA.
SAY THE WORD AND I WILL START CALLING THE DEALER AND BEING A PRICK.
MY MATE OVERHEARD A DEALER SAY THAT WHEN HE SEES MY BIKE COMING DOWN THE STEET HE FEELS SICK AND IT WAS A HONDA DEALER TOO

[TwoSeven]

Huh? More bollocks again TwoSeven,

What I was saying, is that a non-factory supported bike shop fooks with a bike - no factory under the sun will touch it under warrantee. They only sort out machines that fail as a result of the manufacturing process - not fool mechanics that dont know what they are doing. I didnt say it applies in this case - because I dont know anything about the dealer.

Having just read thru the actual emails posts - apart from an aparent faulty wiring loom which does happen, I cant actually see what the problem is. Not sure what the argument is over the 96 vs 98 octane fuel is tho - I know the bikes prefer the latter but 2 octane shouldnt make that much of a difference. The so-called faulty clutch seems to have just had glazed plates which could be caused by all manner of things.

Personally, they are fixing everything under warrantee including the bust fairing - i'd keep quiet and let them get on with it.

[StoneChucker]

I hope you get this sorted, it must be SUCH a headache!

The ticking noise would piss me off. R1's sometimes devellop a ticking noise (some do, some don't - how can THAT be normal). So far, thank god, mine is fine. Yamaha say the ticking is "Normal" and nothing to be concerned about. Fuck that, I would be concerned about it, it's fucking annoying to say the least.

At least they're replacing the wiring harness, hopefully that sorts out the electrical problems.
The sidestand issue is VERY tricky. It's your word against theirs, while I may believe you, others may not and it's practically impossible to prove who is in the right or wrong, assuming the stand is assembled correctly.

The clutch. Hmm, another bastard to "prove". I think it would be very hard to destroy a clutch unless you obviously mistreated it, which I doubt you would do on a new bike.

I guess it all comes down to, if you're being honest. I like to think that you are, so as I said, I hope Honda/CycleSpot stop the BULLSHIT excuses and honour their warranty / consumers act. Keep us informed, I for one will be happy to send an e-mail stating my feelings. As you can see, lots of people are offering to phone, and we're thinking of sending Sensei509 round in person

[2_SL0]

The time frame that it has taken is unfortunate, but other than that they have done everything they are supose to do. It would annoy me if it was mine but, Honda has done everything right. I would also suggest that fact that it appears to of had more than one problem really is the reason this has been stretched over a period of time. May I ask why you chose Cycle....? as the place to purchase this bike. There are more than one dealer around. I personally buy on service not price.

[gav]

Yeah, reading through the Blue Wing emails, it seems they are doing pretty much everything they can. They have also offered an extra 12 month warrnty on the bike. How did the fairing get damaged? Did the bike fall over after the sidestand broke or what? They are replacing the fairing at their cost. It only appears an issue regarding a slight ticking noise, shame they cant isolate that....otherwise not sure what else they can do, replacement of the bike certainly seems unlikely. Best thing to do, is trade it on something else, maybe a GSXR1000 or wait for the V5 sports tourer.