Honda CBR1000R5 - I got a lemon...

**WINJA** · 15th May 2005, 19:07

Originally Posted by Zapf

ermm a very professional letter.

well now that they have lend you a 600RR. why don't you write back that you are at the end of your wits and if what they proposed here doesn't fix all the problems once and for all you should recieve a new CBR1000 as you have lost all confidence in their ability to repair the bike in question to an acceptable standard.

and then let the cards play themselves out? If it is a lemon.... I think there are more juice to be squesed.

wonder what other KB'ers have to say...

My experience:

I for one had a bad incident with Cyclespot, they were selling a bike on behalf. And the owner had also listed on trademe, although I had bought it on trademe, the dealer (cyclespot) heard that the owner was going to take it back lowered the price on the VTR250 right away and it sold on the same day. So I was very upset that my 1st bike got sold from under me, and I had to find that out from running into the guy who bought my bike at AMPS.... Lou would recall this...

So anyway I went to Cyclespot to RANT to them as well, and so Grant offered to sell me a new VTR250 at a heafty discount.

So that is where I am at with them. They are on friendly terms towards me, mostly they see the $$$ when i walk into the shop.... E.g they offered me to take the new 05 CB900 Hornet for a ride

IAN AND GRANT ARE LIKE A SNAKE AND A SHARK WHEN YOU WALK INTO THEIR STORE

MD · 15th May 2005, 19:45

ams67 after reading that latest letter from BWH it sounds like they are trying to put it right and have come to the party on picking up costs such as the fairing and replacing the wiring loom and clutch all under warranty. It's a Bugger it has taken so long but I think it's time to back off the Fair Go threats and aggro approach. All that's likely to do is back fire in your face. Try the nice guy approach, get the bike back on the road where you can decide long term if you keep it or not. Must be other Honda dealers in Auckland if you don't trust Cyclespot? Having the wiring loom replaced may be the 'lemon' problem solved once and for all.

**ams67** · 15th May 2005, 20:38

I really hope you are right.

**inlinefour** · 15th May 2005, 20:44

I think they have done plenty and yes it was most unfortunate that it had to be your bike, but I'm sure all the branded sports bike production lines every so often produce the dreaded lemon. As for the dealer that sold you the bike. I would simply have refused to return the 600cc bike when they asked for it if there was still issues with your bike and it was away getting repaired. Personally I reckon that Honda could give a tad good will and maybe buy you some new racing leathers...

**ManDownUnder** · 16th May 2005, 09:27

Originally Posted by inlinefour

I think they have done plenty and yes it was most unfortunate that it had to be your bike, but I'm sure all the branded sports bike production lines every so often produce the dreaded lemon. As for the dealer that sold you the bike. I would simply have refused to return the 600cc bike when they asked for it if there was still issues with your bike and it was away getting repaired. Personally I reckon that Honda could give a tad good will and maybe buy you some new racing leathers...

Good idea - either that or at least put threm on some sort of notice - once they've done the work... have them agree that if anything else goes wrong you'd really like to swap the bike out for a new one that works.

Cut them some slack - but only so much...
MDU

**Lou Girardin** · 16th May 2005, 10:26

The letter does sound reasonable to me. You have all the issues covered in case the 'minor' problems turn into major ones once out of warranty. Don't ignore the fact that they have done more than required to help you. I'm sure Ducati never covered all the bikes that fell off their (notorious) stands. Give the bike a fair trial and see what happens.

**ams67** · 16th May 2005, 10:54

This is my response to the Honda GM letter. I am still awaiting for a response:

Dear Sirs
As you are both aware, I purchased a Honda CBR 1000RR ("CBR") on 18 November 2004 from XXXXXX Honda. Without labouring the point, since that time the CBR has been subject to numerous ongoing latent problems, both of a minor and significant nature. These have included, without limitation, the RPM limitation fault, the failure in the clutch, the failure of the side stand and the development of the ongoing ticking noise in the engine, which was not apparent or evident at the time of purchase. Several additional minor electrical failures have also occurred which may or may not be attributable to faults in the CBR's wiring loom. Overall the number and nature of the ongoing latent faults in the CBR calls into question whether this CBR was of acceptable quality at the time it was sold to me and whether there has been a failure of substantial character of the CBR.

Since returning the CBR to you for repair, I have been without the CBR for a total now of five weeks. Mr Honda GM letter further indicates that the CBR will now not be available until sometime after 17 May 2005, adding at least one further week that the CBR will be unavailable. Mr Honda GM letter further does not provide a guaranteed date on which the CBR will be available for pick up and I suspect that there will be inevitable further delays as additional faults are discovered.

Pursuant to the Consumer Guarantees Act 1993 ("Act") you are required to remedy the failure as to the quality of the CBR by either fixing the CBR, by replacing the CBR with another or identical type, or by providing a cash refund within a reasonable period. Given the fact that the CBR was brand new at the time of purchase, and although I appreciate your efforts to date in trying to correct the faults in the CBR, the ongoing and continuing delay in repairing the CBD has now reached a point where it is unacceptable and clearly unreasonable.

Unless this issue is resolved in a manner to my satisfaction within five working days of the date of this letter, time being of the essence, by either having fixed the CBR of all defects, replacing the CBR or otherwise providing a cash refund, I will have no other option but to reject the CBR in accordance with the Act and to look to my remedies under that Act.

I await your response as soon as possible.

Regards
Antonio

**ams67** · 16th May 2005, 14:32

I would like to clarify that the letter come from the General Manager of the Honda Distributor for New Zealand and not from CycleSpot.
It appears that Cyclespot is fighting to get me a replacement. Well, I will keep you updated.

**inlinefour** · 16th May 2005, 16:16

Originally Posted by ams67

I would like to clarify that the letter come from the General Manager of the Honda Distributor for New Zealand and not from CycleSpot.
It appears that Cyclespot is fighting to get me a replacement. Well, I will keep you updated.

I got the impression they was turning a blind eye. Personally I think that as Cyclespot sold you the Lemon and acknowledge it, then they should replace it with a non-lemon so that you may find out how great Honda motorcycles can be

**ams67** · 16th May 2005, 17:24

Well, as i wrote, IT APPEARS that they are doing their best. I really hope I will be able to confirm it.
I am more curious to see the reply from the Honda Distributor NZ. They are the 'dark side' of Honda.
I wonder if I can complain about the poor customer service of Honda Distibutor NZ to someone 'higher' than their General Manager. Something like the GM of Honda Japan (??)

**inlinefour** · 16th May 2005, 17:27

Originally Posted by ams67

Well, as i wrote, IT APPEARS that they are doing their best. I really hope I will be able to confirm it.
I am more curious to see the reply from the Honda Distributor NZ. They are the 'dark side' of Honda.
I wonder if I can complain about the poor customer service of Honda Distibutor NZ to someone 'higher' than their General Manager. Something like the GM of Honda Japan (??)

Go straight to Japan. I heard that a local Honda dealer had his dealership suspended due to Japan finding out how poor his customer service was and how he was running the dealership. You never know, they might actually ask if they can have your bike for extensive testing and give you another. It makes good business sense to me...

**ams67** · 16th May 2005, 17:29

It sounds very unreasonable to me. I do not really like to be described as a LIAR.
Instead of say: sorry customer about the 'lemon', here is a new bike and a brand new ARAI helmet for your troubles, they say: get stuffed you little liar, because I am in good mood I am going to replace your broken fairing... ;-)

**inlinefour** · 16th May 2005, 17:36

Originally Posted by ams67

It sounds very unreasonable to me. I do not really like to be described as a LIAR.
Instead of say: sorry customer about the 'lemon', here is a new bike and a brand new ARAI helmet for your troubles, they say: get stuffed you little liar, because I am in good mood I am going to replace your broken fairing... ;-)

I have read the whole thread through a couple of times and no where has it been stated that your a liar, at all. No where does it say "get stuffed", at all. Nor does it say "because I am in good mood I am going to replace your broken fairing". However, IF you demonstrate the same sort of attitude to the people that your dealing with, as you display with this message, then its no real wonder your not getting anywhere

Generally speaking I find I get much further with people if I treat them the way that I would like to be treated myself

and in my place of work, that is generally a daily occurrance

**ams67** · 16th May 2005, 17:53

OK, let me clarify a couple of points. I have been a very reasonable person for about 6 months. I was happy to have them trying to fix the bike issues. I could also understand their position.
But there is a way to say in Italy that can be roughly translated in English as: enough is enough!

I know (and also some witnesses) that the side stand of the bike was loose and therefore failed.
Here is the HONDA DISTRIBUTOR NZ response:
"Regarding the reported side stand failure, we have inspected the side stand and we confirmed the stiff nut on the side stand pivot bolt, once loosened, could not be undone further by hand - this nut could not have become loose during use..."

Now, I have never said someone has undone it by hand.
Do you see the term 'LIAR' hidden in that sentence?

Furthermore, regarding the fried clutch how can someone have the corage to write such as ballshit. I remind you that we are talking about of a PERFORMANCE BIKE:

"Regarding the clutch failure, we will be sending this clutch to Japan for technical investigation, but our observations are that the clutch outer plates are ‘oily’ as expected, and the burning and dryness of the inner plates was caused by incorrect operator usage, and not from any design defect"

Now as far as I am concerned they can state also that pig can fly. But in this case their are saying that I am a LIAR (because I have stated that I have been using the bike mostly cruising) and I am also a such a bad rider that I have managed to fried a performace clutch after just 3,500Km on the clock.

I have also learnt a new lesson: If you think you are right and with the 'good manners' you get nowhere, then be more 'proactive' and start to play 'chess'.

Now I have also a question to you if I may:
Are you a Honda dealer?

**inlinefour** · 16th May 2005, 17:59

But your attitude is noted and reinforces my previous post. You are welcome to read into whatever/whoever said what, but you'll probably get it wrong and have ended up winding yourself up. The side stand was loose you say, why on earth did you not get it fixed? After all thats your responsibility, is it not. Kind of like not lubing cables and then complaining when one snaps?

You did say that even others noted that the side stand was loose, why oh why did you not sort it out, before it took the inevidible fall?