Honda CBR1000R5 - I got a lemon...

**Lou Girardin** · 17th May 2005, 08:32

Originally Posted by ams67

OK, let me clarify a couple of points. I have been a very reasonable person for about 6 months. I was happy to have them trying to fix the bike issues. I could also understand their position.
But there is a way to say in Italy that can be roughly translated in English as: enough is enough!

I know (and also some witnesses) that the side stand of the bike was loose and therefore failed.
Here is the HONDA DISTRIBUTOR NZ response:
"Regarding the reported side stand failure, we have inspected the side stand and we confirmed the stiff nut on the side stand pivot bolt, once loosened, could not be undone further by hand - this nut could not have become loose during use..."

Now, I have never said someone has undone it by hand.
Do you see the term 'LIAR' hidden in that sentence?

Furthermore, regarding the fried clutch how can someone have the corage to write such as ballshit. I remind you that we are talking about of a PERFORMANCE BIKE:

"Regarding the clutch failure, we will be sending this clutch to Japan for technical investigation, but our observations are that the clutch outer plates are ‘oily’ as expected, and the burning and dryness of the inner plates was caused by incorrect operator usage, and not from any design defect"

Now as far as I am concerned they can state also that pig can fly. But in this case their are saying that I am a LIAR (because I have stated that I have been using the bike mostly cruising) and I am also a such a bad rider that I have managed to fried a performace clutch after just 3,500Km on the clock.

I have also learnt a new lesson: If you think you are right and with the 'good manners' you get nowhere, then be more 'proactive' and start to play 'chess'.

Now I have also a question to you if I may:
Are you a Honda dealer?

From the Hondas point of view, they don't know you, don't know how you ride. But they do know from experience that some people abuse their bikes and/or don't do simple maintenance. The replacement bike thing is a debatable issue, but if dealers replaced every bike when asked to, how many do you think would still be in business?
You do have some valid points, but as for the attitude - basta!

**ams67** · 17th May 2005, 08:56

If I knew that the sidestand was loose I would fix it for sure. The fault occured after I have done about 2000Km in 4 days while cruising in South Island.
Do you check all nuts and bolts of your bike everytime you go for a ride?
I do that with my KTM. But as you cans see a KTM has different requirements than a CBR. Furthermore tha bike had been serviced just a month before the failure (I assume that the sidestand had been checked during the service).
I said that the other noted that the sidestand was loose AFTER the failure.

I can undestand your love for Honda but I have the impression that you are trying to winding me up.

**ams67** · 17th May 2005, 09:06

It appears that you are missing a lots of points. They are not minor issues but major ones. I advise you to read the Consumer Act in regard of faulty vehicle (Serious fault pargraph).

Regarding my attitude I think it 's up to me to say 'basta!'...

**inlinefour** · 17th May 2005, 09:35

As far as the Act you talk of, what is a reasonable time frame and who decides it? Its got nothing to do with my like of Honda, so far this thread has done a good job of putting me off the new blade...
I think you have missed the point that I'm trying to make. They are trying to fix it, are they not? I think the real issue is more the time frame in which its taking?
Yes, you make an excellent point regarding the ability to check all nuts and bolts under the fairings. Its something that I'll have to learn, I.E. taking the fairing off when doing maintiance checks. As I have stated previously, I understand your frustration, I'd also be just as peeved as yourself. I sympathise with your plight and are probably the most interested individual here to learn of the outcome, as I want a new Fireblade myself (although the 600cc model), but want to know that customer service is not going to be an issue. If it is, I'd probably purchase from another manufacturer that offers a better service to its customer...

**ams67** · 17th May 2005, 10:05

Originally Posted by inlinefour

As far as the Act you talk of, what is a reasonable time frame and who decides it? Its got nothing to do with my like of Honda, so far this thread has done a good job of putting me off the new blade...
I think you have missed the point that I'm trying to make. They are trying to fix it, are they not? I think the real issue is more the time frame in which its taking?
Yes, you make an excellent point regarding the ability to check all nuts and bolts under the fairings. Its something that I'll have to learn, I.E. taking the fairing off when doing maintiance checks. As I have stated previously, I understand your frustration, I'd also be just as peeved as yourself. I sympathise with your plight and are probably the most interested individual here to learn of the outcome, as I want a new Fireblade myself (although the 600cc model), but want to know that customer service is not going to be an issue. If it is, I'd probably purchase from another manufacturer that offers a better service to its customer...

Well, I am happy that you are not trying to wind me up.
Yes, you have a good point. What is the reasonable time? At the moment my bike has spent 30% of its entire time in the Honda workshop.
Yes, they are trying to fix it, as they did in the past.
My question and the consumer Act question is: How many time an expensive brand new vehicle has to be fixed before we consider it as an 'acceptable quality'?

You see, I am not complaining because of a single issues. It is a relatively long list of issues. They still have my bike in their workshop (this is the 6th week).

If I sell you a computer (High spec PC with a top graphic card) that you use for your work and this PC develops the same ratio of faults as my bike (I keep it for 6 weeks in my workshop and I give you a P75 as a loner), How would you react? If someone would tell you that you attitude is bad because you say that you need a working computer ASAP and you think (after several attemps to fix it and hend for 2 months in the workshop) that the best solution is a new computer, would you still asking the question: They are trying to fix it, are they not?

**vifferman** · 17th May 2005, 10:26

Furthermore, I think their attitude to Antonio is not the best; they've implied he's a liar, and that some of the faults are due to his negligence or abuse. Yes, it was good that they replaced the fairing panel when they didn't legally have to, but it would've been better for customer service if they hadn't made a big song and dance over it while saying it was his fault (unproven). The clutch fault was unproven to be due to abuse, but they chose that explanation rather than that it was a fault as it left them an 'out'.

As for the ticking noise - yes, it's just a noise at this stage, but given the other problems, I too would be worried about it if it was my bike, especially since they haven't proven what it is caused by and that it is harmless.

All of Antonio's complaints relate to customer service and the underlying attitude. With each of them, they had a choice that would've cost them relatively little (especially given Antonio's financial outlay for the CBR), but which would have been good PR, and they instead acted like Antonio was lying, maltreated his new bike, and was just a nuisance. In fact, he'd bought a new bike, he expected it to be very good, and when there were failures, he expected them to stand behind their product and treat him with courtesy, respect and good will.

**inlinefour** · 17th May 2005, 14:05

Gotta agree there with both you and ams67. You both make good points and I do hope that this resolves to an acceptable standard very soon.
I built a high spec generic computer last year and the first video card had a fan in it that was making a horrific grinding and whining noise. I returned back to the shop of purchase and demonstraned the noise. They very quickly and efficiently removed the video card and replaced it with a new one. I had only used it for two days at that stage and rung them up immediately once finding the problem on the first day. Yea I think the mob at Honda should have handled the whole situation much better. I bet they'll change their tune some what if you get Fair Go involved. This is what I'd do if it was my problem bike

**ams67** · 17th May 2005, 14:38

Fair go and a letter of complain to Honda Japan will be my next moves if the situation will not be solved in a reasonble manner. I am still waiting for the response from HONDA DISTRIBUTOR NZ. Something is telling me that they are going to threat me.

**inlinefour** · 17th May 2005, 16:33

Originally Posted by ams67

Fair go and a letter of complain to Honda Japan will be my next moves if the situation will not be solved in a reasonble manner. I am still waiting for the response from HONDA DISTRIBUTOR NZ. Something is telling me that they are going to threat me.

I really think that if they are stupid enough to make threats that it will just help you with your cause and definitely help Fair Go get onto their cause. I really think that it would be a stupid thing to do and really hope that they are not that dumb. I'm sure that the powers that be in Japan would be less than amused either, if they stooped that low...

**ManDownUnder** · 17th May 2005, 17:12

Originally Posted by ams67

Fair go and a letter of complain to Honda Japan will be my next moves if the situation will not be solved in a reasonble manner. I am still waiting for the response from HONDA DISTRIBUTOR NZ. Something is telling me that they are going to threat me.

Something from the Min of Consumer Affair's website...
http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/c...ultygoods.html

What caught my eye is the line saying "The Act requires the retailer who supplied the goods to sort out any problems. This means a retailer can not tell you to take the problem to the manufacturer."

Not sure with how this sits (having read not all of the stuff in this thread)... but you need to stay on the case of the guy(s) that sold it to you, not Honda NZ

Rights and remedies

Rights if goods are faulty

The Act requires the retailer who supplied the goods to sort out any problems. This means a retailer can not tell you to take the problem to the manufacturer.

You can choose whether to seek a remedy for the problem from the trader or the manufacturer.

When you have bought something that doesn’t meet one of the guarantees you have the following rights:

Minor problems

You can ask the trader to fix the goods. The trader must choose between repairing the goods, replacing the goods or giving you a refund.

If the trader refuses to fix the problem or takes more than a reasonable time to do so, you can return the goods and ask for your money back. Or, you can ask for replacement goods, if the same type of goods are reasonably available to the trader. Or, you can take the goods elsewhere to be fixed and ask the supplier to pay for the cost of repair.

Serious problems

If the problem is a serious one (the goods are unsafe, substantially do not meet acceptable quality, fitness for particular purpose, description or sample), you can choose to:

return (reject) the goods and get your money back, or
return the goods for a replacement of similar value and type (if the goods are reasonably available as part of the supplier's stock ), or
keep the goods and have the price reduced to make up for its drop in value.

If the goods cause damage when they become faulty -the washing machine floods the laundry ruining the vinyl flooring - you can ask the supplier to pay for the damage. This is called consequential loss.

**WINJA** · 17th May 2005, 17:54

COULD WE RUN A POLL HERE , IF WE SAY IN THE POLL SOMETHING LIKE ARE THESE GOODS OF MERCHANTABLE QUALITY OR NOT AND IF NOT DOES THE AMOINT OF PROBS WITH THE BIKE WARRANT A REFUND , THIS POLL MAYBE USED AS AN INDICATOR TO WHOEVER THAT THIS BIKE IS NOT OF MERCHANTABLE QUALITY. (CAN SOMEONE PUT THIS INTO ENGLISH FOR ME).
AND ARE WE RINGING CYCLESPOT YET OR NOT I DONT WANT TO HEAD OFF DOING MY OWN THING AND DAMAGING THIS GUYS CHANCES IM WAITING FOR HIS GO AHEAD

**gav** · 17th May 2005, 20:07

So when did the sidestand come lose? Did you mention it to the Timaru dealer? Did you get the old clutch plates back from Timaru dealer? Are these the ones that Blue Wing inspected or the ones that are in you bike now? The ticking noise is more than likely something to do with replacing the shim in the first week isnt it? Why did they need to replace the shim? Possibly the right size shim is still not installed?

**Sensei** · 17th May 2005, 20:20

Burn them at the Stake . People don't need this when ya just brought a brand new bike

**ams67** · 18th May 2005, 13:03

To all the bikers out there,
Thanks very much for your support, I have had great meeting with Cyclespot and between up have come up with a very pleasing results. This now ends this matter and I am once again a very happy biker.

AMS67

**StoneChucker** · 18th May 2005, 13:22

Originally Posted by ams67

To all the bikers out there,
Thanks very much for your support, I have had great meeting with Cyclespot and between up have come up with a very pleasing results. This now ends this matter and I am once again a very happy biker.

AMS67

What was it???
A new bike? A repaired bike, to your satisfaction? A job as a salesman? 10 free lap dances at the local?

Anyway, glad you're happy - that's the main thing!