What's going to happen?

[R6_kid:Me]

All them cheesecutters there , too

Yeh, lucky they didn't jump out and grab him aye!

[Cayman911]

You can expect someone to cut you off, and you brake and nothing happens because its wet, the tyres are locked and you are sliding forward at the same speed you were before you braked

using only one of the brakes in the wet is pretty much useless.. but then if someone does cut you off you panic and dont really think about which to use how

[slofox]

On a 250cc bike? I'd say more like you hit a patch of diesel.

Wot 'e said. I would rate it as "unusual" to lose rear wheel traction on even newly wet tar bleed unless you really had the throttle on hard. Specially on a smaller bike. I doubt the SV would do that...maybe I should try it out next time it rains...

[Mudfart]

yeah that was one thing I was thinking with being on a 250cc. It was revving at about 9000rpm in 6th gear.

[Ender EnZed]

yeah that was one thing I was thinking with being on a 250cc. It was revving at about 9000rpm in 6th gear.

That doesn't mean it's making more power than a big bike, it means the engine is working harder. The connection between the rear tyre and the road isn't affected by how hard the engine is working.

[Scorp]

Get yourself on a dirt bike in a paddock and have a play

I heard somewhere that dirtbikers have fewer and less serious crashes than roadbikers and I figured. Either that's because they aren't on the road as much, or they've learned where the limits are and how to manage things when they lose it better.

As a 43 year old noob I think I might look a bit daft starting out in dirtbiking, but I really would like to learn the limits of a bike on something more forgiving than pavement. The paddock sounds like a good idea.

[Ender EnZed]

I heard somewhere that dirtbikers have fewer and less serious crashes than roadbikers and I figured. Either that's because they aren't on the road as much, or they've learned where the limits are and how to manage things when they lose it better.

They're usually going much slower.

[kiwifruit]

As a 43 year old noob I think I might look a bit daft starting out in dirtbiking, but I really would like to learn the limits of a bike on something more forgiving than pavement. The paddock sounds like a good idea.

Nothing daft about it, its the best way to start out

[Mudfart]

That doesn't mean it's making more power than a big bike, it means the engine is working harder. The connection between the rear tyre and the road isn't affected by how hard the engine is working.

But do the revs have something to do with torque, velocity etc...? Coz surely a bigger bike revving lower, putting more torque to rear tyre will have better traction?

[Mudfart]

also, Ive talked with california superbike school, and 6R license holders can ride their 250's on the beginners course.
So im gonna start a new thread asking if any noobish riders want to book it for a day, so we are all in the same boat on the track.
This will really help to learn cornering and control i reckon.

[Ender EnZed]

But do the revs have something to do with torque, velocity etc...?

The revs relate to the torque in that their product is the power. This means that if you had a perfectly flat, horizonstal torque curve (a torque "line" instead) then the power curve would also be a straight line from idle up to the rev limiter.

Velocity is the rate of change of position, dunno where you were going with that "etc...".

Coz surely a bigger bike revving lower, putting more torque to rear tyre will have better traction?

Why? More torque to the rear tyre means the rear tyre would spin more. The traction/friction that exists between a your tyre and the road will be the same regardless of whether your engine is 50cc or 5000cc. The traction will be overcome by a certain amount of power. The tyre-road connection doesn't know where the power is coming from or how fast your engine is revving.

At 9000rpm you had about 22hp going through your back wheel. The same as a ZX10 makes at about 2500rpm. Alright, a ZX10 also has more grip due to being heavier, bigger tyre and such but if the tyre-road connection were the same (and it's not far off) then it would have the same chance of breaking traction on any bit of road at 2500rpm as your bike does at 9000rpm.


Ninja 250 power curve

ZX10R power curve

[Berries]

I was always told, if you are ever going to ride, you WILL come off at some time.

I'd agree if you are talking about on the track, but totally disagree for road riding. All this phrase does is allow people to make an excuse for falling off, i.e. nothing I could do, bound to happen etc etc. As Mr Bastard said, if you think that way then there is a good chance it will happen. Personally, I think that if someone feels that way it's probably best to get a car because falling off has been known to hurt.

The reason I made this post is because I asked a guy if he has regular experiences with rear tyre slide, and he says it happens a fair bit with wet roads, paint on roads, tar etc..... and he rides like a nanna.

Just take it easy as a new rider, or when you step up to a bigger bike. It's all fairly obvious, there is less grip on a wet road, even less on wet markings or manhole covers. And possums. Pick your lines to avoid them where you can, take it easy on the throttle (and brakes) where you can't. You may still get the odd unexpected slide coming out of a corner in the wet with the power on, but over time you'll learn how much and how fast you can turn the throttle. You can't beat experience, a lot of it is down to miles under the belt, under all conditions.

Never done proper MX but imagine it is a great way to learn about a bikes behaviour at slightly safer speeds with a mildly softer landing. And with luck on somebody elses bike.

[Mudfart]

ok the etc... was me not knowing physics but knowing they are involved and the natural scientific principle in keeping the rubber on the road and your skin off it.
Surely a zx10 is putting more rubber onto the road and therefore will have better traction as my tyres are pretty skinny.
however thanks for explaining the torque curve, that makes sense.
The "I was always told" line is simply that. I have two older brothers who have ridden all their lives, and have come off once or twice each. that little gem of info came from them.
I came across a possum the other morning actually and had to readjust my line, in a corner to avoid it. It was a concern that if i squashed it whilst in the corner, i might lose control, how ever I was shocked to find my new line put me over the centreline.

Im gonna save up and get me some training at hampton downs i think, the riderskills.co.nz place is too far away in te atatu.
Does anyone know any instructors in hamiltron?

[CookMySock]

Learner bikes generally have shit suspension too, and its not unknown to see daylight under their wheels with "spirited" riding. It's not really tunable either - its just that they're cheap.

Even larger, modern bikes often have shit suspension as-standard, and really that has to change if you want to cane it around the place - quality suspension is less about ride quality and more about keeping the tyre surface on the fucking road.

That leads us to consider moving to quality suspension doesn't really do anything for your riding experience, except to jar your stuffed back less often, or enable you to go faster with less sensation of speed - but is that a good thing? I like sensation of speed - I wouldn't insulate myself from it.

So what is the solution?

For me, the answer is to just quit being an arse on a bike, and just enjoy it, before I kill someone that someone near to me loves.

Steve

[Thaeos]

I've heard the 250 Ninjas have craphouse factory tires. That might also have contributed.