Passing when group riding - important especially for newbies

[Metastable]

I was just reading another thread and thought I'd post this up, especially for the newbies.... but probably good for everyone to hear.

When you are in a group, the bigger the worse this scenario will become.

If you are all passing a vehicle, the guys who have completed the pass MUST stay on the gas until the entire group has made the pass. Generally speaking you are accelerating when making the pass, therefore lets say the group is 10 riders long. By the time the 5th guy goes to pass, because he has had a much longer acceleration run, when the is level with the vehicle being passed he/she is going much faster than the first rider. If one of the riders in front checks up, then that is a HUGE problem. By the time the 10th guy goes to pass, he is going even faster than the 5th rider. So, stay on the throttle until all riders have passed, before shutting down. Also, it is good practice to move over to the curbside lane position after making the pass, until the guy behind you has safely made the pass. That gives them more room, just in case.

[Laxi]

and I thought it was the responsability of each rider to make sure there is room for them to complete a pass before they pull out :slap:

[yungatart]

In your scenario it sounds like 10 riders, 1 group, 1 collective brain.
Surely each individual within the group needs to make their own decisions, not rely on somneone else to do their thinking for them.
I certainly wouldn't pass a vehicle just because "everyone else did"

[Metastable]

It's about facilitating. Yes you can make sure there is enough room, but if there is enough room and all the sudden one of the guys check's up on the throttle or worse, hits the brakes, there won't be much room for very long. Plus, the group can get strung out pretty far, if you stay on the throttle until the entire group has passed, you make more room at the back of the pack.

I fail to see how this is confusing?

Edit -> Plus one more thing. If you just ride your own ride, you might not be in the best position to avoid a mishap with another rider. If you ride trying to facilitate flow, and concentrating on not only what you are doing, but what others are doing behind you, then there is a better chance to avoid a get together with another rider.

[sinfull]

and I thought it was the responsability of each rider to make sure there is room for them to complete a pass before they pull out :slap:

This is true !


Depends on the group and how well i know them or their style how i ride !

Some i've been on spread out over half a k, others are so tight you can fit a dozen bikes in the space a truck/trailer takes up !
Some groups i wouldn't think of gettin on the gas till i see the rider ahead has done the manouver, but others i ride with i'm on the gas as soon as i hear the lead rider crack open the throttle, these groups generally know the order we ride will be the order we pass and everyone cracks open the throttle when the lead bike goes and in those rides the leader generally has plenty of experience and knows just how much space the group needs to get in a gap and won't crack it on if there aint the space to do so !
There of course are occasions where the group wont all fit and then it becomes rider responsibility not to be an idiot !

Have learnt that if you jump the gun with a group of riders you don't know, you could get left hanging outside the passed vehicle which aint pretty at times

[cowboyz]

its bad advice because you are relying on someone elses perception on if its safe to pass or not.. rather than your own.

Its just not a good idea.

Pass when YOU have enough room to pass and get back in safely.

[Berries]

I fail to see how this is confusing?

It’s not confusing, it just sounds dodgy.

What if there is another car ahead and the gap is only big enough for 8 bikes ? What if rider 1 made the move prior to a corner but in plenty of time for him to negotiate it, then rider 10 comes steaming in ? What if rider 3 is sitting on 90 demerits ?

Too many what ifs with this scenario. I would hate to have someone behind me who thinks this way.

[Kendog]

It's about facilitating. Yes you can make sure there is enough room, but if there is enough room and all the sudden one of the guys check's up on the throttle or worse, hits the brakes, there won't be much room for very long. Plus, the group can get strung out pretty far, if you stay on the throttle until the entire group has passed, you make more room at the back of the pack.

I fail to see how this is confusing?

I kind of see your point, as I have witnessed this happening.

But....

If someone who has passed slows or hits the brakes it should be because they are riding their own ride and making sure they are safe.
I would suggest it is the responsibility of the next rider to do the same thing i.e. ride their own ride, not just pass because the person in front passed.

Also, passing often involves an increase of speed over the speed limit. When you have completed your pass should you really continue to speed, or drop back down to the speed limit?

[Metastable]

This is interesting, because of all the groups I have led, and people usually asked me to lead.... I have never had a situation where there was a cock-up during a pass. Plus this has never even been an issue when brought up in conversation with other riders... everyone agreed. Plus we're talking from experienced riders to not so experienced.

Let me clarify.... and this might not have come out quite right on the first post, so I can see where some of you guys are coming from. I'm not saying, make sure the WHOLE group gets through in one shot. Hell no. Sometimes there is only room for 4 out of 10 or 3 out of 4 or whatever to make the pass safely. Maybe a corner is approaching or there is another car coming.... yes, the guy making the pass needs to take this into consideration. However, this has nothing to do with the guys that have made the pass. What I'm saying is the guys who have made the pass, should try to make room for the guys behind them, so that when it is safe to make the pass, they can do so.

However, if you are riding at the speed limit and the car is close to the speed limit.... geez... it would take forever if you didn't keep it a bit over the limit for everyone to pass. I think it would be borderline dangerous to tiptoe past a vehicle then shut'er down after making the pass. As a group ride leader, I like to see the lights of my sweeper to make sure everything is OK (last rider - high beams) .... a big group passing at the speed limit would make this hard for the leader.

[MSTRS:Me]

... the pack.

...

The operative word for your scenario. There are very few (and we know what sort) who ride like this. It is a recipe for disaster.

[BiK3RChiK]

I think what you are saying, is, if in a group and you are passing, and someone else in the group is passing behind you, don't suddenly back off the throttle and close up their gap. Which is fair enough... but, it is up to each individual within the group to judge whether it is safe to pass or not and whether there will be enough room or not.

Personally, I don't like passing as a 'group'. On the road there are far too many variables that make this kind of passing extremely dangerous at times. The group rides I have been on get stretched out and sometimes individuals within that group end up riding with only 1 other biker or even by themselves and the lead riders pull up at a turn and wait for them to catch up. The only thing about this is, that the lead riders have been waiting for a bit and are probably chomping at the bit to continue on, whereas the TEC's might need a break! I guess this is where good communication comes to the fore....

I think the advice of the OP could potentially be dangerous...

[sinfull]

The operative word for your scenario. There are very few (and we know what sort) who ride like this. It is a recipe for disaster.

Yeah thats them bwahahahah !~

[bogan]

I see what you are saying, keeping the speed up after the pass will make it easier for those behind you trying to pass as well, but I disagree that there needs to be a speed differential between first past and last past when passing, just maintain a constant following distance to the rider ahead instead, sounds much safer.

[CookMySock]

By the time the 5th guy goes to pass, because he has had a much longer acceleration run, when the is level with the vehicle being passed he/she is going much faster than the first rider. [...] By the time the 10th guy goes to pass, he is going even faster than the 5th rider.

No, I don't think so mate.

If you are in a group of ten riders, and the group is closing up quickly on a line of traffic to be passed, you simply do nothing. Approach the line of traffic - all bikes holding a constant 15k speed differential, and simply roll past the cars - no throttle movement whatsoever. Inexperienced riders will probably not feel comfortable doing this, and will be going for the gears and the throttle.

If the opportunity to pass closes up, then the rider may choose to go anyway and split into the oncoming traffic if they deem it to be safe (cars often will move over), or they may simply roll off the gas and sit in line until they feel comfortable with taking the pass, at which point just roll on the gas and go.

The momentum thing you describe is really dangerous, and should not be happening at all.

Steve

[Metastable]

Where did I ever say that anyone should commence the pass before the rider in front has competed? All I'm saying is the guy who has made the pass if there is another rider behind them in a group ride, should facilitate the pass of the guy that is behind. Maybe I'm dense, but I really don't see anything here that is unsafe.

Now you can say that if you don't want a ticket, this is not a good idea, fair enough, but I'll say that I'd rather be safe than worry about getting a ticket, and staying forever in the passing lane is not my idea of safe.... for you or anyone else in the ride.

Steve - if the situation you described happens, of course.... you are already going a fair bit faster than the traffic being passed, there is no need to accelerate and also no need to check the throttle. However if you are approaching someone that is going a bit slower than the group, do you just pass 3 kph faster? That's suicide, IMO... or do you just sit until they decide to turn off somewhere?