Going Wide (warning: rant)

[erik]

...
The Biker Bible, by Graham Allardice which someone mentioned is a superb book, I suggest it to everyone. ...

I've read The Biker's Bible (can't remember if I read all of it or only some) but in my opinion, Profficient Motorcycling is a better book, more information, better explanations of countersteering and cornering, more entertaining to read etc.
See if you can find it at a library and have a look.

[StoneChucker]

I've read The Biker's Bible (can't remember if I read all of it or only some) but in my opinion, Profficient Motorcycling is a better book, more information, better explanations of countersteering and cornering, more entertaining to read etc.
See if you can find it at a library and have a look.

I don't need it, I've perfected motorcycle control and have nothing more to learn

Yeah, if I ever set foot in a library, I'll check it out, thanks

[WINJA]

ON ONE OF THOSE STRAIGHTS I HAVE MY BIKE BANGING OFF THE GOVENEOR (WHICH IS SET AT 299KMH)

Haven't you got a TRE Unit yet Winja Would have thought someone of your riding skill wouldn't have a Govened bike ?? So it is true ya aren't that fast & here I was thinking you could ride

I HAD A TRE ON MY K3 BUT TOOK IT OFF, IT MADE THE BIKE HARDER TO RIDE THRU THE TRICKY STUFF AND I THINK THE BIKE IS PUSHING IT ANYWAY TO GET TO A GENUINE 300 I THINK THEY ONLY JUST TOUCH A GENUINE 300 IN STANDARD FORM PROVIDING THEY ARE A FULL POWER MODEL ANY WAY SO WHY FUCK WITH THE FUELING. THE TRE WORKED REAL GOOD ON MY K2.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE TRE DOES AND HOW IT WORKS? I MADE MY OWN.
I ONLY DO 300KMH ONCE OR TWICE A WEEK ANYWAY MUST BE GETTING OLD

[zooter]

My 2c worth, I'm a pretty good driver and a bit of an old bastard for a beginner biker so I found it VERY frustrating at not being able to push a bike around a corner at 10 10ths when I started. I don't know why but my corner reading skills did not transfer to the lines you take on a bike very well at all.
Now I still don't ride hard out because that speed is too fast to be able to take evasive action if untoward conditions suddenly crop up around the bend. Round these parts there is the ever present danger of a campervan stopped in the middle of the road or some absent minded German or Frog coming at me on my side of the road as he gawps at the scenery.

[Biff]

IMHO:

If you have to brake mid corner then you entered the corner too fast.

Slowly change down gears before the corner and use the engine braking/speed to slow you down. Avoid having to use the brakes at all. Use the engine speed to control the power delivery. Drop the gears progessivly and slowly. Avoid hitting high revs in the lower gears as you drop your gears. If you slam the gears down you run the risk of locking up the back wheel.

If you need to reduce speed any further then use both front and back brakes, in unison, BEFORE you enter the corner. Use of the brakes when entering corners, for normal road riding, should be considered a last resort. For now.


Too late, it's an OFC (Oh Fuck Corner)

It's too late, you hit a corner far too fast. Oh Fuck - you're heading for:

A. Oncoming traffic.
B. A wall.
C. A small group of children.

Don't Panic (RIP D.Adams). Avoid at all costs shitting your pants. Now is the time to stay in total control and remain calm. Chances are that you could turn the bike even more if you just relax and countersteer. The guys here have already pointed you towards some good links that will help explain about countersteering and other useful tips.

When you hit that corner too fast you're first instinct is to brake, sometimes hard - but doing this could really spoil your families day. I know it's human instinct - but fight it - and countersteer your tits off. You'll be suprised at how much extra lean you can get if you stay relaxed and fixate on where you want to go, not where you don't.

Avoid looking at the car/wall/child, look at that escape route. Target fixation is a nasty thing. If you look at something when riding a bike there is a natural tendancy to steer the bike in that direction.

Bottom line mate - you must slow down. You are riding too fast, beyond your level of experience. Biking is ultimatley a dangerous past time. You must respect the fact that you are on a machine, in the open, travelling at speed and there are lots of hard things out there..

[Ranzer]

Ranzer something I've noticed about KB -A good idea has the ability to grow if you are prepared to promote it.
"thats me taken care of" --Ok howsabout you run a emergency braking practice session. I'll be happy to lend ya my training cones and show ya how to do it.
I betya $100 that if you say ---hey I need to practice my braking--anyone wanna come along and practice too--Youll get a heap of guys keen as mustard.
I can tell ya about a couple of deserted roads not too far from town where ya could practice this stuff. By deserted I mean really 0 cars
Heres a little hint--have ya seen how frostys race starts have improved 150% ---nuff said??

This sounds like a good idea, but justsomeguy has beaten me to it!
Depending on how many people come/want to come it might even be worth making it a regular thing, but will have to figure out what kind of time interval would be good etc... in the meantime

(Was gonna post this last night, but the site went down)

[Mokoro]

Don't break and lean into the corner more

[slob]

Mate, if you think your ZZR250 has a standing-up-under-brakes issue, you should try a TL1000S - the only way to get through a corner (esp the tight ones) on that bugger was to countersteer like crazy!

Actually when I owned a ZZR250 I never really noticed it standing up on the brakes - keeping the tire pressures right helped the handling, so did fitting a higher profile rear tyre (it steepens the steering angle a wee bit).

I don't think anyone's mentioned cornering lines here - but I've found that getting my lines right has been the biggest contributor to helping me corner more confidently and faster. The classic newbie mistake is to apex too early, which makes you run out of road quickly. This problem could be mis-diagnosed as entering the corner too fast (when in fact it's the lines chosen that's the problem...). Might want to get an experienced rider to show you their lines so you get a feel for it.

The other riding technique that was a great help was to learn to control where I was looking (i.e. look - but not focus on - at the corner exit).

Mind you, at the end of the day a lot of this stuff will just dawn upon you as your experience increases.

Thread Hijack section:

DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE TRE DOES AND HOW IT WORKS?

I thought Timing Retard Eliminator was supposed to derestrict the engine in the first 2 or 3 gears, not remove the top speed limiter? Or does it do that too?

[Sensei]

I thought Timing Retard Eliminator was supposed to derestrict the engine in the first 2 or 3 gears, not remove the top speed limiter? Or does it do that too?[/QUOTE]

Yep sure does Just depends which one you buy I have an Ivans Performance TRE Unit . Does both bottom & top

[geoffm]

Yeah it's entirely possible that it's just us, but even erik agreed that the ZZR seems to want to stand up more than his bike when you use the front brake in a corner.
And I'm not sure whether MR even touched the brakes, least of all in a corner ;-p
But if he did I would be keen to hear what he thought, or if he noticed anything.

Bike setup can make a difference to the tnedency to stand up under brakes. All bikes will do it to an extent, but some are worse than others. The ones with rounded 16" wheels are well known for it. What are the tyres like? A square rear or worn front can do this as well
G

[riffer]

I wonder if any of us have actually ever had the front end wash out because they countersteered too hard. I never have. But I sure as heck have caused the bike to stand up straight and understeer like hell.

That panic pull the brakes on is a bitch.

I still find myself going for the brake sometimes and I have to actually yell at myself inside the helmet to "push the bar you idiot". Especially on the Rimutakas.

I talk myself through corners when I'm weekend riding. I try and guage the corner speed (easier if its signposted) get as far out to the side (all my braking should be finished by the time I am at the outside of the corner, talk to myself again (not yet, not yet) and then try and get on the throttle at the exact time I push the bar - hard (the RF doesn't really like changing direction in a hurry).

I've found when in doubt - push the bar harder.

As for judging corners - White Trash gave me some good advice - look at the end of the side of the road - if its moving towards the centreline its tightening, away its loosening. Great advice Jimmy - its saved my arse many times.

And as others have said - practice, practice, practice. Start slow.

[Pixie]

www.superbikeschool.com
This will explain why all motorcycle steering is countersteering.
See the "nobs bike" article.
Applying the rear brake into a corner can make the bike lean over in opposition to the stand up effect of the front brake

[Zapf]

I wonder if any of us have actually ever had the front end wash out because they countersteered too hard. I never have. But I sure as heck have caused the bike to stand up straight and understeer like hell.

That panic pull the brakes on is a bitch.

I still find myself going for the brake sometimes and I have to actually yell at myself inside the helmet to "push the bar you idiot". Especially on the Rimutakas.

I talk myself through corners when I'm weekend riding. I try and guage the corner speed (easier if its signposted) get as far out to the side (all my braking should be finished by the time I am at the outside of the corner, talk to myself again (not yet, not yet) and then try and get on the throttle at the exact time I push the bar - hard (the RF doesn't really like changing direction in a hurry).

I've found when in doubt - push the bar harder.

As for judging corners - White Trash gave me some good advice - look at the end of the side of the road - if its moving towards the centreline its tightening, away its loosening. Great advice Jimmy - its saved my arse many times.

And as others have said - practice, practice, practice. Start slow.

I washed out the front of my Gixxer! damp road and a drop of unseen oil.

[Gremlin]

I have a grand total of 3 hours riding experience. And I'm taking it nice and slow. Only riding when its quite (midday, or early on the weekend). Slowing for corners waaaay early and trying to make my head operate my hands and feet in unison.

I reckon the biggest problem when being a total newbie is the complete lack of "automatic response". Atm, when slowing my head has to think: "roll off throttle, clutch in, gear shift (is it up or down), clutch gently out, throttle gently on". That has to be the biggest danger. I have no intention of riding anywhere (aside from the tip of my peninsula) until that is automatic. Simply too dangerous when something unforseen happens.

Also, I'm only riding on roads I know, and still getting used to the bike. It is surprising how heavy a bike feels when first starting out. Also, when I came upon my first corner on real roads (luckily the road curved to the left, I was going straight and the side road only had an island) I actually did nothing. Brain freeze. Soo many options and I didn't even move the throttle, just steered through it. Just.

Then coming home (slight downhill, into a downhill driveway) I was still trying to think what to do, when the driveway was upon me and I ended up clutching it and coasting down in third gear.

I would say riding around your close neighbourhood in the very quiet hours slowly learning would be the best. And try to have a properly working bike I don't have a headlight or proper indicators (no front, solid rear coz of missing front), and the rego is on hold. It makes you more nervous because you know you can't really tell the other cages what you are doing...

Somebody mentioned not riding on Dunlop Arrowmax GT501s.... Why? John fitted my bike with them so I am simply riding on what it has...

[John]

Well to drain the thread out some more I will add my experiences to the same bike.

If your ZedZedR is standing up in a corner, you are applying the brakes to hard, FAR to hard - I always 'brushed' the brakes through the corner, because I always had to much lean! ZedZedR's love leaning which is ironic for a mini-tourer when you think about it, remember the most efficient way of braking isn’t jamming them on, progressive breaking is best, if you need to brake in corner consider using engine braking through the corner, I don’t recommend this for newer riders as it can be really really dangerous, but you could always just come into a corner a gear lower than you normally do so that you have engine braking and ability to turn the throttle a bit if need be.

Some things you might want checked out is, Brake Pads, You might have an incredibly soft compound on there and its biting to hard, Suspension, set it up properly for your weight/feel of the bike, This requires a bit of mechanical knowledge!, check your triple clamps and bearings - Its strange how many times you find strange behavior like this causes major problems! in example simple things as rear wheel alignment; after my crash the impact managed to knock my rear out of alignment, I think it was due to semi loose bolt and was knocked out of shape when I landed the stoppie - when riding home my bike scared the shit out of me, mid corner it wasn’t happy going either way, was running hell wide and generally being a little bugger!.
So you always must check your bike over before a ride, even more so the little bikes, there littler/weaker parts are more prone to fall out of shape and cause BIG problems, a bit of food for thought.

I also must say I just jumped on my ZZR as soon as I got my L (fully suited) and blasted all around town, and the bike loved it - but I suppose I had being riding off road for a very long time before hand, I still stand by the ZZR being the '150cc' of the '250cc's' in respect to how friendly they are and how easy to learn on they are, that bike taught me more than I thought possible in the short time I had it, and it shows - I never have any silly moments in my ZX now, I'm pretty sure if I had gotten the ZXR by now I would be still in hospital.

Enjoy the bikes, and don’t be so quick to jump to bike fault sometimes the silliest problems can just be a discrepancy in your riding style, there has being a 'adopt a newbie' system set up (awesome work guys!) maybe you should consider joining and getting some tips on riding style from the wiser member.

Take care, and sorry if this is all shit - I think you all know the story, I think I'm the king of it (shit).

edit: GT501's are great tires I got right on the edge of them more than once! I love them, but I cant get them for my new bike so I will be stuck with GPR70's (darn! ).