Fear reaction when cornering

[Sentox]

...except, how do you explain 'motard style'? Cos that works too...

Well, motards are pretty tall, giving them a higher center of gravity and nearly unlimited ground clearance (compared to sportsbikes, anyway), so you can stay straight on the bike and let it do the leaning. The idea, afaik, is to allow for faster transitions between corners. This is just what I've gathered from reading though.

Plus, motard riders aren't so concerned about losing traction at the back.

[MSTRS:Me]

...I've made a number of changes ...
I still wouldn't say I am a fan of blind corners, but I'm feeling a bit happier about them.

But do lend your words of wisdom ...

Good to hear. Afterall, if you don't enjoy doing something, why would you keep doing it?
Have you considered the Vanishing Point method of reading the road? There is a very interesting thread about that here

[R-Soul]

This is more a rant about a disappointment I'm experiencing with my riding at the moment, but perhaps you might be able to identify with it, and chime in.

Recently something has gone backwards with my riding. I've started experiencing a fear reaction on corners, particularly blind corners that I can't see through, that didn't used to exist. I feel ok when I'm following someone, it's just when I'm on my own.

And it's causing me to do the wrong things. For example, I come out of a corner and discover my arms have tensed up, or I have trouble making myself keep a positive throttle in the corner, and I'm having to give extra concentration to make sure I'm looking where I want to go. These things didn't used to demand so much effort previously.

But once I'm most of the way through the corner I find myself annoyed because the corner ended up feeling easy, and I know I wasn't pushing my abilities, and the fear reaction was unwarranted.

And I guess that's the bit really annoying me - the fear reaction is un-warranted and is affecting my riding.


I did have a low-side on a corner maybe 5 months ago. I don't think it is bothering me, but perhaps something is playing games sub-consciously in the back of my head. I don't know.

I have a similar problem on AMCC ART days going down the front straight into Castrol corner. I'm confident I have the right lines, but because I can't see through the corner before I enter it I experience a fear reaction that is holding me back. I slow down without a good reason. Once I'm actually in the corner I feel fine again.

I remember the words "if your not having fun slow down until you are" ringing in my ears from AMCC ART days, and put it to the practice. I took on some deliberately twisty challenging roads recently and adopted a considerably slower pace. And the fear disappeared. And I decided to concentrate on the basics, looking through the corners, maintaining a positive throttle and keeping my arms relaxed. Maybe I need to put in some riding time like this until I build more confidence again.


I've reached the conclusion I need to take a step back to move ahead. I need to reinforce the basics again until my brain is ready to let me progress again.

Either that or back myself ...

Can I make a suggestion. You have progressed in your ability -- and your speed. Perhaps the fact that your ability and speed has increased, while your ROAD cornering technique has regressed (not apexing late) means that your brain is no longer happy wioth the amount of leeway you are affording yourself to see situations ahead.

You are in a bit of a catch 22 situation. Because you are going faster, you cannot really do the late apex thing while feeling safe at that speed (because its unnerving going late into a corner at higher speeds), so you do more of a racing line. Yet your brain doesn't like this because you can no longer see as much through the corner, which causes anxiety, so your survival reactions (SR's) kick in - notably by stiffening up on the bars.

What you need to do is continue the late apexing (because its good road technique - and good track technique according to Keith Code!) but learn to turn faster. This is an important part of riding quickly. By "turning quickly", I mean "move the bike from upright to fully leaned over as quickly as possible" . You do this by really giving a good yank on the bars. All the racers know that turning quickly is paramount for racing. Watch Rossi etc - they go from upright to knee down in half a second - we noobs on the other hand, take probably somewhere around 3-5 seconds to lay the bike down.

In this way, you get to see further through the corner before taking it, you make one turn- once (at low and smooth corner entry speed), and you get to accelerate hard out of the corner on a straighter exit line (being less leaned over) so you have a better speed for the entire straight after the corner.

The more confident you become in turning quickly, the safer you will feel going late into corners for late apexing, the less of a death grip you will have on the steering. Also if you have good technique and balance on getting your torso lower and further inside, the bike will feel more stable and in control.

Learning to turn quickly is your next bottleneck.

Does that make sense?

[R-Soul]

PS like the "new improved" R-Soul?

[Katman]

I have to force myself to keep up good speed around blind corners,

What on earth is wrong with exercising a degree of caution on blind corners?

How many more people have to die before the message sinks in?

[Sentox]

What on earth is wrong with exercising a degree of caution on blind corners?

How many more people have to die before the message sinks in?

There's two sides to it, I guess. If one is going to be honest about stopping distances, a lot of blind corners have to be taken relatively slowly. But one should still be confident in the mechanics of it.

[MSTRS:Me]

There's two sides to it, I guess.

There is.
Success.
Or - Pain. (varies from a fright to a box)

[onearmedbandit]

people often have trouble with right handers, IMO most of the problem is that counter stearing means pushing on the throtle grip, this is a mentel issue because with out relising it you dont want to open the taps up while loading that arm up with presure to turn... something to think about.

This is the one area I think I have an advantage over most other riders. Having only one arm at the controls, and of course it's a busy one hand with throttle application, countersteering, braking and clutch duties all keeping it in constant demand, then coupled with a 160hp bike, has meant that I'm very aware of my countersteering and throttle application. The whole process to me seems to slow, and I can constantly make minor adjustments to any input without upsetting another. Very very satisfying.

[CookMySock]

What on earth is wrong with exercising a degree of caution on blind corners?

Nothing at all.

The problem is, even if you are touring quietly everywhere, one day you will pop around an unfamiliar corner and have it tighten on you. It's not about riding too fast, its just statistically one day you will get that one-in-a-million time where it catches you out.

So the discussion continues - getting such a scare and not brain locking - how to achieve that.

Steve

[Katman]

The problem is, even if you are touring quietly everywhere, one day you will pop around an unfamiliar corner and have it tighten on you. It's not about riding too fast, its just statistically one day you will get that one-in-a-million time where it catches you out.

Only if you're not concentrating on what you're doing.

[CookMySock]

Only if you're not concentrating on what you're doing.

Perhaps that would be suitable for riders who tour quietly everywhere. I do not, and therefore I'd rather implement a solution that serves me.

Steve

[Katman]

Perhaps that would be suitable for riders who tour quietly everywhere. I do not, and therefore I'd rather implement a solution that serves me.

Steve

Sorry, I forgot that your concentration probably doesn't extend much beyond this.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/574...4CAB71988C315C

[CookMySock]

Yeah shes cute isnt she! LOL.

Steve

[Voltaire]

or this:
http://www.mrwhippy.co.nz/

[Bad Gixxer]

Hey you've received lots of good advice so far in this thread - just an abstract idea that works for me. I dicovered by accident that if I wear ear plugs that cut out the vast majority of engine and wind noise (like maybe 85% compared to just wearing a helmet) then i have a much smoother ride on both the road and the track. Obviously wearing good plugs doesn't make you ride better or improve your skills directly. I think it's that when you say chop it down 3 or 4 gears and pulling high revs, the lack of noise just takes that sense of urgency away from you - you feel more comfortable and less likely to tense up. You can still hear enough to know what's going on, but i tend to feel the feedback from the bike rather than hear it. Certainly helps me ride better.

And when you get off the bike you also feel more rested if your ears haven't been pumelled by 100plus decibels for the last 90 minutes.