$400 for a ignition timing pickup? You must be fucking kidding!

[Conquiztador]

A mate has a 400cc Duke. I borrowed it once last year and went to Tauranga (from Napier) and it was a plesant thing to ride.

3 months ago it started farting and missing. He took it in to a local shop and they diagnosed a problem with timing sensor. They ordered it and told him $400.

He has now used the bike for 10+ weeks on one cylinder as it is his only transport. I had a chat with him last week and as you do talked re bikes. He told me the story. I could NOT believe it. On two counts:
- 10 weeks for a shitty little bit!
- $400 for the shitty little bit!

So I asked him to come around this long w/e and we have a look...

We put the bike on to its r/h side and opened the cover. She has 2 black ignition timing pickups that sense when the flywheel timing bit come past. I measured them and found that one worked. The other not. (She is a 2 cylinder girl).

So I took the faulty one out, rummaged round in my "good to have" bits and found one that was similar. Well, almost. Holes were in different places for mounting, and it was a little bigger. Also had one wire out and not two. But a few minutes of tinkering and all this was sorted.

I fitted the sensor, reassembled all the parts. He pushed the starter button and she settled in to a nice idle (something she had not done for 3 months...). He took her for a test run and came back all smiles.

I will catch up with him tomorrow and hear how she goes. Apart from perhaps the timing a fraction out on that cylinder (not that we did notice anything) all else should be fine.

Reason for this thread is not to tell you guys how brilliant I am (even if I have no problem you telling me so... ), but to wonder about two things:

1. The customer service of todays bike shops. This was not rocket sience. (Yes, I know re the Consumer Guarantee etc. and the issues if not doing a top job straight away etc.). The bike was running on one cylinder. And they tell him to ride away and they will get the bit. 10 weeks later NOTHING!

2. They wanted $400 for the bit!!! Holy shit!!! The bit I fitted was most probably from some old 2 stroke banger (or even a 50cc scooter) and is just what the doctor ordered. Worth a beer...

What is happening with the industry? Has customer service become something that nobody gives a shit bout? Is selling $15K new bikes all that matters?

Oh, and they wanted payment up front for the bit too... Lets hope he gets his money back!

And I know the ones who will now post here telling me that it is all about bla bla and I don't understand re the bla bla. But for fucks sake! He is a bike rider, he deserves to be treated well by the ones who are supposed to care: The bike shops!

No wonder I fix all my own stuff. All those ripoff bike shops can get fucked far as I am concerned!

[R6_kid:Me]

Cost $117 to replace a plastic L-bend fuel line fitting on a Ducati I was looking after. I'm sure it cost about $4 to make, and it took two weeks to arrive ex-Italy.

[Corsa.co]

Ha Ha Ha ... Fuel line bend instock new $50,,. Pickup coil , there are two types, can only get the 460 ohm type. New $120 usually in stock.

[98tls]

Not to mention they would probably have wanted another $400 to fit it,thens theres a 50% chance they would fuck it up charging you another $200 to rectify there fuckup.Ebay rocks,pure and simple.Good on ya for getting your hands dirty.

[Leseid]

I have a French car so I have felt this pain also before. You pay a shit load of money up front and wait a very long time to receive some plastic part you could have substitute from an engineering supplier. But you don't what to take it back as it is a genuine part after all and you don't want to stick mongrel parts on your pure beast of pleasure.

But French cars turn out to be some of the most mongrel cars on the market, and they're the ones laughing all the way to the bank with people ordering genuine mongrel parts.

This the reason I chose a pure bread Japanese bike.

[JMemonic]

I wonder about the price of some of the parts, I had to replace a front indicator bulb, now the base is standard, its not made by some uber secret manufacturer as I can read osram on the bulb but do you think its available as a standard? No that type of base in the orange colour is normally the larger head as used on stop/tail etc but these have a small head and the large one wont fit so what should be a $2 bulb costs $10+.

I would suspect the genuine part you refer to in this case is the same, they make a batch for the bike manufacturer with the fitting they require which internally is no different to their normal production run, but as its now a special part the manufacture charges gets to charge a premium on.

As to what is going on in the industry, on could say folks just don't know, they only know the data on the sheet in front of them, and it would seem motorcycles have gone from being a form of transport to considered as a luxury item in the eyes of the government, insurance, and even some sectors of the industry including the manufacturers. Cars are simply to cheap and bikes to expensive.

[CookMySock]

I can get bike parts from the other side of the planet in three days, and thats over the weekend too. They should sort their shit out, not that they have to.

Sure it's easy to jury-rig something into place, and sometimes it works perfectly, but the problem is it's very easy to provoke a problem from the "whoever thought of that" category, and quite often it fries something really expensive in the process. No one wants this on their resume, or rather - bike shops can't make money out of it because of the high rate of returns and the negative fallout about it posted on forums such as this.


Steve

[Conquiztador]

Sure it's easy to jury-rig something into place, and sometimes it works perfectly, but the problem is it's very easy to provoke a problem from the "whoever thought of that" category, and quite often it fries something really expensive in the process. No one wants this on their resume, or rather - bike shops can't make money out of it because of the high rate of returns and the negative fallout about it posted on forums such as this.

Steve

Yep, I get that. But we are not talking about rocking horse shit here. Most bikes today have these. So to fit one from another bike is surely not that hard? Instead of nothing happening in 10 weeks. He has already told me that he will never go back to the same shop. And as he is looking at upgrade to a 1000cc bike shortly they will not even be in the running.

[R6_kid:Me]

Ha Ha Ha ... Fuel line bend instock new $50.

Really? The one that plugs into the tank?

[Motu]

(Yes, I know re the Consumer Guarantee etc. and the issues if not doing a top job

Yes,this is unfortunatly behind it all.It really hurts for me to know I can fix something quickly and cheaply,but don't dare do it because of repercussions.When I had my own business I had to stop my guys from fixing things....they'd get pissed off at me.

What we need is for customers to stop complaining about things that are nothing to do with the repairer - but to say,''Shit man,do it! If it fucks up I don't care,at least we tried.''

[PirateJafa]

Yep, I get that. But we are not talking about rocking horse shit here. Most bikes today have these. So to fit one from another bike is surely not that hard?

Don't want to have to deal with any potential liability issues?

Or listen to the customer bitching and moaning for the next eleven years that s/he can "feel through the seat of their pants that X/Y/Z is now wrong with it because they maori'd the wrong part onto his bike and now they've broken it and boohoohoo"?

If you want to do a "close enough" fix on your bike, then you might as well do it in your "close enough" to a workshop shed with your "close enough" abilities and "close enough" tools and attitude.

If you want it done professionally, take it to the professionals.

Disclaimer: By professionals, I sure don't mean bike shops in general. But I know of a couple of places out there that I am willing to trust my bikes to.

[Conquiztador]

Ha Ha Ha ... Fuel line bend instock new $50. Pickup coil , there are two types, can only get the lower ohm type. New $120 can`t remember , but usually in stock.

So why would he then be charged $400 for a bit (that has not even turned up in 10 weeks???) $120 is still a ripoff. But deserves nothing more than a whinge over a beer. $400 on the otherhand...

Not to mention they would probably have wanted another $400 to fit it,thens theres a 50% chance they would fuck it up charging you another $200 to rectify there fuckup.Ebay rocks,pure and simple.Good on ya for getting your hands dirty.

Sadly you are probably right. The chap is not a mechanic, and I recon this is the problem: Old cunts like me have always fixed our own shit, so we have some knowledge re how things work. Today all is specialised, so ppl just don't open things up anymore. Take it to the "specialist" and actually expect to be charged a fortune!

As to what is going on in the industry, on could say folks just don't know, they only know the data on the sheet in front of them, and it would seem motorcycles have gone from being a form of transport to considered as a luxury item in the eyes of the government, insurance, and even some sectors of the industry including the manufacturers. Cars are simply to cheap and bikes to expensive.

I personally think it is a lack of interest in the job (I'ts just a fucking job, who cares?) and a lack of care for the customer (If he is stuped enough to pay then lets just rip him off, and if he does not want to pay fuck him. There are other suckers out there!)

I can get bike parts from the other side of the planet in three days, and thats over the weekend too. They should sort their shit out, not that they have to.
Steve

This is something that I have seen mentioned on here heaps of times resently. And the ones in the trade trying to defend their $400 charge for a bit we can get over the net for $100 by telling us that it ha all to do with the cost of knowledge, serviced and bullshit. 10 weeks, $400 up front and nothing, reeks of incompetence, lack of any service and care. And ppl wonder why they go out of business???

Yes,this is unfortunatly behind it all.It really hurts for me to know I can fix something quickly and cheaply,but don't dare do it because of repercussions.When I had my own business I had to stop my guys from fixing things....they'd get pissed off at me.

What we need is for customers to stop complaining about things that are nothing to do with the repairer - but to say,''Shit man,do it! If it fucks up I don't care,at least we tried.''

I hear you and I understand the issue. But what I do wonder is that if there was a shop that did treat their customers like in the past and actually took care and treated them well, would they not be doing brilliantly? To spend a few minutes talking to the customer and say: "Here is your options: $400 + labour for the right bit, $50 and labour for one that will do the job, but no guarantee (sign here)". Instead of not caring?

Don't want to have to deal with any potential liability issues?

Or listen to the customer bitching and moaning for the next eleven years that s/he can "feel through the seat of their pants that X/Y/Z is now wrong with it because they maori'd the wrong part onto his bike and now they've broken it and boohoohoo"?

If you want to do a "close enough" fix on your bike, then you might as well do it in your "close enough" to a workshop shed with your "close enough" abilities and "close enough" tools and attitude.

If you want it done professionally, take it to the professionals.

Disclaimer: By professionals, I sure don't mean bike shops in general. But I know of a couple of places out there that I am willing to trust my bikes to.

I understand all that. I am happy to do my own "near enough" stuff. A few months ago my K100's starter stopped working. I diagnosed worn brushes. I went to the local Auto Elecrician and bought a set that was "near enough" for $35. Took them home, did some filing. Fitted and Bobs my uncle. Never even asked what original ones would cost. Can only guess. (Or most probably they only come in a new starter motor...)

I recon the problem is that ppl are earning too much money these days, and they spend it on their toys. Then when the toy breaks they just get a new one. Just look at all the plastic whizz bang bikes on the roads. And when you start to talk to the owners they know all the latest models and what colour wheel this years model will have. But they have no idea how to change a fuel filter.

[jonbuoy]

They did diagnose the fault correctly though, I guess they could have spent half the morning scratching around in a miscellaneous parts box to see if they had something that might do the job, fitting it only to find that as a second hand bit it had an intermittent fault on it as well that didn't show up for another couple of months - causing the owner to bring the bike back in and ask for the right part to be fitted instead. But you would all be happy to pay for that extra labor and inconvenience right??

[doc]

I think part of the problem is the apprenticeship system. We now have technicians. Also you have an Italian thing. My recent experience with Italian electrics, bike died with a fuel pump problem, technician said it needed a new $1550 fuel pump. Apprenticeship trained electrician said that the contacts were dirty,and put it back in. Hasn't missed a beat since.

[Conquiztador]

They did diagnose the fault correctly though, I guess they could have spent half the morning scratching around in a miscellaneous parts box to see if they had something that might do the job, fitting it only to find that as a second hand bit it had an intermittent fault on it as well that didn't show up for another couple of months - causing the owner to bring the bike back in and ask for the right part to be fitted instead. But you would all be happy to pay for that extra labor and inconvenience right??

Close. They could have told him they can get it working, but no guarantee as the bit is not new. He then could have decided. As I mentioned: It is his only transport. Or, god forbid, they could have done some research and got him a bit from someone who had it in stock. Paid trade price and still charged him $200 (making a clean $100 of the bit) and had him on the road inside a week...

And re the diagnosing: How tricky is it when one cylinder is firing and not the other?
1. Spark plugs out = One has spark the other not.
2. Swap plugs around = Problem still on same side.
3. Check coils. Swap wiring around = Still same side.
4. Swap ignition pickup sensor around. = Problem moves to other cylinder. = Pickup sensor or wiring from sensor to connector.
Time for that = max 1/2 hour with time to make a cuppa.

On the phone, find who has a sensor = 1/2 hour. Contact customer tell him they can have it here inside 5 days. Job $200 (two hours) sensor $200. Or (if they had me there...) tell him we can fit a similar one that keeps him going today. His choice, but no guarantee on that one.

Or am I just too old fashioned?

I think part of the problem is the apprenticeship system. We now have technicians. Also you have an Italian thing. My recent experience with Italian electrics, bike died with a fuel pump problem, technician said it needed a new $1550 fuel pump. Apprenticeship trained electrician said that the contacts were dirty,and put it back in. Hasn't missed a beat since.

A good try! Charge $1,550 for cleaning the contacts!! Ohh...hang on, there would have been a few hours labour on top of that!