Police killing us again!

[MSTRS:Me]

And there's the problem John.

While we continue to refuse to confront the number of avoidable motorcycle accidents the public will continue to be fed evidence of our culpability in those very accidents.

Don't know how you figure that one out. What we do as regards reducing avoidable crashes has nothing to do with what the cops say in the aftermath of something like this one.

[Katman]

Don't know how you figure that one out. What we do as regards reducing avoidable crashes has nothing to do with what the cops say in the aftermath of something like this one.

They're two separate entities John.

But they're both still happening and we're still losing.

[MSTRS:Me]

Can't argue with that.

[over5tayer]

The officer attempted a u-turn intending to pull over the driver of the speeding utility, but was unable to complete it in one movement.

As he put his car into reverse so he could complete a three-point turn...

cops should be taught to do handbrake u-turns

reasoning:

• it would look damn cool
• if he/she pulls it off - it'll most likely put them in a good mood. A happy cop is a reasonable cop
• less time spent performing the maneuver

or.... they could just find a fucking safe place to turn around.

[Elysium]

Perhaps we focus on "avoidable" car accidents ... and get THEIR ACC levies hiked up ...

Yeah right. And next we hike the ACC levies for avoidable rugby player injuries and cyclists injuries too? Unlikely.

Sad thing is the vast amount of money that could be saved by ACC if car drivers did avoid avoidable crashes.

[Katman]

Yeah right. And next we hike the ACC levies for avoidable rugby player injuries and cyclists injuries too? Unlikely.

Sad thing is the vast amount of money that could be saved by ACC if car drivers did avoid avoidable crashes.

So why the fuck don't we lead the way?

[FJRider]

Yeah right. And next we hike the ACC levies for avoidable rugby player injuries and cyclists injuries too? Unlikely.

Sad thing is the vast amount of money that could be saved by ACC if car drivers did avoid avoidable crashes.

At least a "sports levy" for those that engage in injury prone sports ... would help the coffers ...

[MarkH]

I usually try give our hard working rozzers the benefit of the doubt, I always cooperate with them as much as I can, in this case, sorry, cop was in the wrong end of story and no blame can be apportioned to the rider whatsoever no matter what his speed or experience.

I have a slightly different view - the motorcyclist MIGHT have been speeding and he MIGHT be partially to blame. But to me that doesn't matter and any conjecture on that is a waste of time. The fact is that even if he was partially to blame he has already paid too high a price.

So lets move on to the other party involved in this crash - the police officer. To me this is a no brainer, his actions contributed to a crash that resulted in the loss of life to another motorist. I think that it is 100% certain that he is guilty to at least contributing to this crash. I also believe that he should be held to a higher standard as he is a traffic cop and we are told that their priority is getting the road toll down. We should certainly expect that a paid professional in the 'lowering the road toll' business shouldn't be pulling dumb arse manoeuvres that put other motorists lives at risk.

Many New Zealanders could do with more driver training to make them less of a menace on the road. Unfortunately some of those NZers are currently paid to patrol the roads ticketing others.

THAT is why I am very unhappy about the circumstances of the incident that this thread is about.

[Elysium]

So why the fuck don't we lead the way?

Because shit happens Katman, either avoidable or not. You think a minority like bikers are going to change the minds of the politicians if we all a sudden become Fluro wearing, safety, biking angels? They need people like us to blame to justify the changes being made at ACC.

At the end of the day motorcycling is dangerous and people must accept that when they jump on that bike that there is a chance of death or injury, avoidable or not.

we

We? Who's we? Groups like MAG, Bronze? The majority of motorcycle owners? Though it's good we have organizations to keep bikers informed, engage with MPs etc.. I doubt we're ever going to get the majority of motorcycle owners out there organised to make such changes that you want.

Lot of bikers I do talk to haven't even heard of Kiwibiker let alone MAG or Bronze. A lot of motorcyclists out there just don't care and do their own thing regardless of the risks so I honestly can't see how much change we can make if we can't even organise ourselves to the point that change can happen.

At least a "sports levy" for those that engage in injury prone sports ... would help the coffers ...

What? Can you imagine the revolt that would cause? I mean our sacred sport being levied?

[Katman]

We? Who's we? Groups like MAG, Bronze? The majority of motorcycle owners? Though it's good we have organizations to keep bikers informed, engage with MPs etc.. I doubt we're ever going to get the majority of motorcycle owners out there organised to make such changes that you want.

Fuck off to the back of the class then.

[Elysium]

Fuck off to the back of the class then.

Whoa, touchy. Looks like that time of the month again.

[Smifffy]

I have a slightly different view - the motorcyclist MIGHT have been speeding and he MIGHT be partially to blame. But to me that doesn't matter and any conjecture on that is a waste of time. The fact is that even if he was partially to blame he has already paid too high a price.

So lets move on to the other party involved in this crash - the police officer. To me this is a no brainer, his actions contributed to a crash that resulted in the loss of life to another motorist. I think that it is 100% certain that he is guilty to at least contributing to this crash. I also believe that he should be held to a higher standard as he is a traffic cop and we are told that their priority is getting the road toll down. We should certainly expect that a paid professional in the 'lowering the road toll' business shouldn't be pulling dumb arse manoeuvres that put other motorists lives at risk.

Many New Zealanders could do with more driver training to make them less of a menace on the road. Unfortunately some of those NZers are currently paid to patrol the roads ticketing others.

THAT is why I am very unhappy about the circumstances of the incident that this thread is about.

U-turn boy IS being charged. He has been told by his watchdog that his actions were 'undesirable'. The rest of it is up to the courts, and one hopes that the court will treat this defendant much as it would any other driver with a fairly clean record.

I don't see what more can be done in regards to obtaining justice.

I do agree with you, that Paul paid the ultimate price for any transgressions he may or may not have made regarding his riding on the day.

I do hope that once the judicial process has been followed, the IPCA will comment further on the conduct of the driver of the patrol car.

[scracha]

Just what the world needs , another conspiracy theorist. We never landed on the moon, the CIA blew up the twin towers, it's all a govt plot through govt controlled media. I never realised Rupert Murdoch & Ted Turner were civil servants

See, based on merely stating that I don't believe everything I read in the newspaper, you're conjecturing that I'm a conspiracy theorist in a pathetic attempt to reduce my credibility. Or in laymen terms, you're trying to portray me as a crank to divert attention from your own biased argument. You're not a lawyer perchance?

If you're naive enough to believe that Ted Turner and Rupert Murdoch aren't lobbied by governments to convey a particular political view that best serves the own (normally financial and self serving) interests, then you're more stupid than I thought.

At least a "sports levy" for those that engage in injury prone sports ... would help the coffers ...

There already is in most sports. For example, at football (soccer) I pay "subs". A fair chunk of that goes to the area governing body, which goes to the national governing body, who then pay a fair chunk of that to ACC. Similar things happen at MNZ. How ACC divvy up this charge is a mystery to me as bizarrely the girlfriend's local horsey club don't pay a cent.

Katman....we've had this discussion before. As per blind corners, yes, you should be able to stop in the visible distance ahead. So yes, regardless of the speed, the rider is partially to blame. Yes, there's a thing called personal responsibility. It works both ways though and I can't see why I should be labelled a "crank" for calling into question the so called "facts" that are being fed to the media, nor the tone in which they're reported, nor why only certain selected facts get reported.

And no, the CIA never blew up the twin towers - it was the NeoCons.

[scumdog]

I suggest you re-read, carefully, the last sentence of what you quoted.

Or are you just that ready for an argument that you argue against someone that agrees with you?

Ooops, sorry, you're dead right!

[FJRider]

There already is in most sports. For example, at football (soccer) I pay "subs". A fair chunk of that goes to the area governing body, which goes to the national governing body, who then pay a fair chunk of that to ACC. Similar things happen at MNZ. How ACC divvy up this charge is a mystery to me as bizarrely the girlfriend's local horsey club don't pay a cent.

That may be the case for organised club sports ... but sking, cycling (road/mountain-bike) for example ... the after hours/hobby sports ... that contribute nothing extra ...