Police killing us again!

[miloking]

Cameras in cars as per the U.S and U.K examples would greatly benefit both sides, not to mention save money in the long run through reducing court costs.

yes it definately would benefit both sides! I cant believe this we actualy agree on something i honestly thought its as possible as division by "0"....

[Scorp]

... most other civilized countries (europe) have 130Km/h limits on open roads (or no limits at all) so most people travel at 150km/h anyway and its not considered nothing but "little over the limit" but here its a crime against humanity!!!

I agree with you that chasing the speeder was a way, way lower priority than making a safe, properly thought through manoeuver (not to mentioning using his frigging radio instead of his car), but you're a bit off on European speed limits. The national speed limit on most A grade roads in the UK is 60 mph, which is 96kph. Most other European countries I've been in the limit is 100kph. Motorways/Expressways in the UK and Ireland are 70mph (113kph), while in France, Spain etc they are either 120kph or 140kph depending on its status. It's only the German Autobhan's that have no limit.

New Zealand is not Europe. In Europe:

1. It is much harder for drivers to obtain a driving license.

2. The construction and maintenance of the roading system is of a higher standard.

1 is definitely true, it's much harder. But on 2, I reckon the average condition of rural roads here is on a par with UK and France, and miles better than Ireland, where the rural roads are fucking deadly, even if you're driving a tractor.

[miloking]

I agree with you that chasing the speeder was a way, way lower priority than making a safe, properly thought through manoeuver (not to mentioning using his frigging radio instead of his car), but you're a bit off on European speed limits. The national speed limit on most A grade roads in the UK is 60 mph, which is 96kph. Most other European countries I've been in the limit is 100kph. Motorways/Expressways in the UK and Ireland are 70mph (113kph), while in France, Spain etc they are either 120kph or 140kph depending on its status. It's only the German Autobhan's that have no limit.

Ok not sure where have you been but I am from czech republic and we have 130km/h on motorway (therefore doing 150 is slap on a wrist) and so do the neighbouring countries, so yeah thats what i was talking about...UK doesnt count, their backwards prude laws are worse than NZ.
I wont even mention Germany as a point in this argument since their roads are smooth like butter so different limits are justified...

But yes getting DL even in my country involves month of evening classes and several tests with instructor as part of the exam and then final "full" test with police officer! so thats why we can have different speed limits i guess...(not to mention its approximately $1000 all up)

[DougieNZ]

Well, no, that's the whole point. The police (and by police here I mean the policy setters, the silver braids) are NOT taking it seriously.

We have clearly seen that cops driving dangerously, especially when initiating pursuits is a general problem. That's the real problem , the near misses and Oh Shit experiences that are happening , if not every day, then at least very frequently. Most of the time, the cop gets away with it, other people avoid him, cover for him . But sooner or later , it will result in a death or serious injury. Now, the problem isn't the death/injury crash. The problem is the day to day cavalier disregard of safe driving. And that problem IS being totally ignored by the police.

Gee - you make some pretty serious allegations there. I am not a member of the police and never have been, but i would be a little surprised if allegations of dangerous driving have been "covered up ,most of the time" as you say. Surely in todays world with intense media interest, complaints procedures, PCA etc it would be pretty difficult to "cover up" allegations of this nature. If I ever witnessed or experienced such behaviour i would ceretainly report it to the police and would not let it go if a "cover up" is attempted! Surely not many complainants would? Do you have any evidence or cases to back up your "cover up" claims? Are the media intrrested? They normally are - or are they part of the "cover up" conspiuricy theory also?

What happens is , they ignore the day to day dangerous driving. Then when a serious crash does happen, first of all they try to close it down, blame someone else (usually the victim). Most of the time that works. If you crash your car into a U turning cop, almost certainly what happens is YOU get a ticket for careless driving, the cop gets nothing. And, it's not newsworthy so that's the end of it.

Really? I saw some publicity in Central Otago where a guy had a conviction overturned in similar circumstances ands the media were all over it.

If the crash attracts too much publicity to cover up, then the hapless cop gets thrown to the wolves as a sacrifice. As Bridgman , the Buller gorge cop was. He was landed with a really heavy punishment. Not saying he didn't bring a lot of it on himself, but he still got well clobbered.

As I said this is probably subject to all sorts of opinions - so I'm not going to go there.

BUT - the important thing is, having thrown him to the wolves , the police did nothing. The dangerous driving still continued . And now it's killed another biker.

So - do you know they did nothing? I would be very surprised if a briefing was not sent out about the performance of U turns and extra training and briefings given in this area. Do you have any evidence that this wasn't done?

Personally, I'm not too interested in seeing the cop hung out to dry. He should be charged , like anyone else, and because he's a cop he's probably going to attract a heavier penalty.

This is my whole point. Should we actually wait until the results of the investigation first? Or should we just hang this person believing what we read on KiwiBiker or people who either weren't there or were talking to people who were talking to people that were there? Do we have the right to make assumptions both about this incident and about the police in general without any evidence to back what we are saying? Even if this police officer HAS made an error - does this justify the usual "all cops are scum and killers" statements being made by all sorts of people on here?

But , what I want to see, and what isn't going to happen , because the police STILL don't take this seriously, is for Howard Broad to stand up and say "Guys, clocking up another speeding ticket isn't worth it if it means someone might die. If you can't do it safely, let it go. And that's policy"

I would be absolutely amazed if that is not already policy. Do you have any evidence that it is not? I'm sure that U turns are mentioned as well as general pursuit policy that if the public are being put in danger the pursuit must be called off. But there must be balance.

Once again I reiterate that the family of this victim must be going through hell and looking for answers. But is putting the boot in to the police as a whole or making generalised statements going to give them any?

[MSTRS:Me]

Once again I reiterate that the family of this victim must be going through hell and looking for answers. But is putting the boot in to the police as a whole or making generalised statements going to give them any?

The brother that was interviewed knew the area well, and was not exactly effusive in his praise of that particular cop...

[Scorp]

Ok not sure where have you been but I am from czech republic and we have 130km/h on motorway

Yeah, I meant 100kph on A grade roads, not motorways. Most motorways I've been on in Europe would be between 120 and 140. Never been to the Czech Republic unfortunately!

[miloking]

Yeah, I meant 100kph on A grade roads, not motorways. Most motorways I've been on in Europe would be between 120 and 140. Never been to the Czech Republic unfortunately!

Ok, i misread normal open roads do have 100k but yeah you would like it, lots of decent looking girls, cheap beer ...and corrupt cops (not always the worst thing if you carry lots of cash on you,lol)

[Ronin]

Ok, i misread normal open roads do have 100k but yeah you would like it, lots of decent looking girls, cheap beer ...and corrupt cops (not always the worst thing if you carry lots of cash on you,lol)

So lying cops are bad, corrupt cops are good?

Just checking for the sake of consistancy.

[miloking]

So lying cops are bad, corrupt cops are good?

Just checking for the sake of consistancy.

Seriously mate, cant you even get a joke?!?! (you know smiley face, and "lol")

let me clarify for sake of consistency then...

No, corrupt, lying cops are bad!!!

(i would go as far as to say "cops" are just bad..since being corrupt and lying is just what they do but maybe those are just european cops, i guess NZ might be diferent...)

[idleidolidyll]

hell yes!

the lying cop would not have got away with it if he'd had a camera in his car when he stopped me; in fact he wouldn't have even stopped me as it was bogus from the get go.

Regardless: I'm gonna go everywhere with a video camera now and film any cop giving me a ticket and i urge you all to do the same to prevent the lying bastards getting away with anything.

[Swoop]

Cameras in cars as per the U.S and U.K examples would greatly benefit both sides, not to mention save money in the long run through reducing court costs.

As if that will happen though...
How will they justify parking outside the pub when having a liquid lunch? Oops, that would be the detectives rather than the ticket-issuing automatons.

[miloking]

hell yes!

the lying cop would not have got away with it if he'd had a camera in his car when he stopped me; in fact he wouldn't have even stopped me as it was bogus from the get go.

Regardless: I'm gonna go everywhere with a video camera now and film any cop giving me a ticket and i urge you all to do the same to prevent the lying bastards getting away with anything.

Kinda like this http://carlosmiller.com/2010/04/16/m...-cop-with-gun/

This happened to one guy thats member on 1000rr.net...got pulled over for speeding (wearing his HD camera on top of helmet ) and cop jumps out of a unmarked car without uniform holding gun,

(later on cops arrested him and entered his family home to search for the camera and footage after it appeared on youtube)

lovely breed these guys no matter what country they work in.

[riffer]

You know I've been thinking a bit about this. We've been so busy blasting the fellow for being a policeman that we've not noticed one interesting similarity between Bridgman and this new fellow. They've both been doing traffic for more than 30 years.

Now that suggests to me that they're both ex-snakes. Not police.

Could it be that the merger of MOT into Police has had a detrimental effect not only on public attitudes to Police, but also that some of the snake attitudes might now be having a detrimental effect on the actual Police attitudes themselves?

[miloking]

They've both been doing traffic for more than 30 years.

Yeah snakes alright, makes me shiver just thinking about how many tickets these two clowns must have issued and caused general inconvenience to public in those 60 combined years...

[bogan]

You know I've been thinking a bit about this. We've been so busy blasting the fellow for being a policeman that we've not noticed one interesting similarity between Bridgman and this new fellow. They've both been doing traffic for more than 30 years.

Now that suggests to me that they're both ex-snakes. Not police.

Could it be that the merger of MOT into Police has had a detrimental effect not only on public attitudes to Police, but also that some of the snake attitudes might now be having a detrimental effect on the actual Police attitudes themselves?

what does the term snake refer to? comes up quite often and I still dunno what it is, TIA