Police killing us again!

**Max Preload** · 22nd April 2010, 19:04

Originally Posted by MSTRS

I am aware of the 2 second rule...It replaced the 'old' method of 1 car length/10mph.
But never heard of 4 metres /100kph.
4m is about the length of an average car.
How would anyone stop in that distance?

Sorry - typo - 4m per 10km/h. That's the actual regulation - 2 seconds is not - it's just an easier way for geometrically challenged folk to see if they're following too close. It's also 38% more than 4m per 10km/h tool.

**riffer** · 22nd April 2010, 19:08

Originally Posted by marty

Actually - I just did some research, and the regulation has been amended, as here:

9 Stopping and following distances

(1) A driver must not drive a vehicle in a lane marked on a road at such a speed that the driver is unable to stop in the length of the lane that is visible to the driver.

(2) A driver must not drive a vehicle on a road that is not marked in lanes at such a speed that the driver is unable to stop in half the length of roadway that is visible to the driver.

(3) A driver must not drive on a road a vehicle following behind another vehicle so that the driver cannot stop the driver's vehicle short of the vehicle ahead if the vehicle ahead stops suddenly.

(4) No driver may drive a motor vehicle on any road following behind another vehicle at a distance behind that vehicle of less than—
- (a) 16 m, if his or her speed is 40 km an hour or more but less than 50 km an hour; or
- (b) 20 m, if his or her speed is 50 km an hour or more but less than 60 km an hour; or
- (c) 24 m, if his or her speed is 60 km an hour or more but less than 70 km an hour; or
- (d) 28 m, if his or her speed is 70 km an hour or more but less than 80 km an hour; or
- (e) 32 m, if his or her speed is 80 km an hour or more but less than 90 km an hour; or
- (f) 36 m, if his or her speed is 90 km an hour or more

Completely invalidated in this instance.

Not 1 - vehicle was not visible.
Not 2 - road able to be seen (up to the crest edge) was not impeded.
Not 3 - vehicle in front had not suddenly stopped.
Not 4 - vehicle in front was not moving forwards with motorcycle following.

Said rules do not, therefore, apply.

**Max Preload** · 22nd April 2010, 19:13

Originally Posted by marty

It's 4m/10kmh, to a max of 70kmh. You are then legally allowed to follow at 28m at any speed above that.

That MIGHT be policing POLICY but I prefer the actual regulations.

**Smifffy** · 22nd April 2010, 19:16

Originally Posted by scumdog

I ain't getting involved.

Why?

Because I would probably not give the answers you like.

And you would twist them to suit your own agenda.

No hesitation getting involved earlier.

I don't expect you to answer this one either, but has there been a police memo or anything come out in the last few days advising "Traffic Safety Patrols" about circumstances to be aware of when executing 3 point turns, or initiating pursuits?

I know that the last fatality that occurred in my industry prompted a flurry of industry wide activity to address certain behaviours, while an investigation was underway. The advice was not in any way interpreted as a presaumption of the course of the investigation, merely a knee-jerk response to prevent similar events until the investigation could be completed and recommendations implemented.

**scumdog** · 22nd April 2010, 19:20

Originally Posted by Smifffy

No hesitation getting involved earlier.

I don't expect you to answer this one either, but has there been a police memo or anything come out in the last few days advising "Traffic Safety Patrols" about circumstances to be aware of when executing 3 point turns, or initiating pursuits?

I know that the last fatality that occurred in my industry prompted a flurry of industry wide activity to address certain behaviours, while an investigation was underway. The advice was not in any way interpreted as a presaumption of the course of the investigation, merely a knee-jerk response to prevent similar events until the investigation could be completed and recommendations implemented.

Not being a Traffic Safety Patrol person I have no idea if such a memo came out or exists......

EDIT: My 'involvement' earlier did not encompass the tragic event that started this sad thread.

**Max Preload** · 22nd April 2010, 19:22

Originally Posted by scumdog

Not being a Traffic Safety Patrol person I have no idea if such a memo came out or exists......

Safety?

**scumdog** · 22nd April 2010, 19:25

Originally Posted by Max Preload

Safety?

Well, Smiffy started it....

**R6_kid:Me** · 22nd April 2010, 19:28

Originally Posted by riffer

Completely invalidated in this instance.

Not 1 - vehicle was not visible.
Not 2 - road able to be seen (up to the crest edge) was not impeded.
Not 3 - vehicle in front had not suddenly stopped.
Not 4 - vehicle in front was not moving forwards with motorcycle following.

Said rules do not, therefore, apply.

1 - the vehicle was not invisible
2 - the road able to be seen - that automatically excludes what you cannot see, in this case, over and beyond the crest.
3 & 4 - the vehicle infront? It was a blocked lane, not a vehicle being followed. Therefore these two points are irrelevant.

FWIW, show me the relevant 'road rules' regarding the cops actions and I'll show you where he was in the wrong too - I'm only trying to balance out the argument.

There is no need to argue the stupidity of the police officers actions, we are all aware of it.

What is unknown is whether the motorcycle would have been in view of the police officer when he initiated the three point turn, or at any point in the maneuver when he should have been looking in the direction from which the motorcycle was coming.

Part of me wonders if in his adrenalin rush and apparent determination to catch the 'speeding ute' how likely it is that he was affected by inattentional blindness which would then absolve the rider of any blame whatsoever.

**Smifffy** · 22nd April 2010, 19:32

Originally Posted by scumdog

EDIT: My 'involvement' earlier did not encompass the tragic event that started this sad thread.

No, it was all about attacking those who dare question the actions of members of the force.

**Katman** · 22nd April 2010, 19:40

Originally Posted by idleidolidyll

Frankly, despite your rhetoric here; I very much doubt that you always follow at a distance in which you can stop for any event................I think that makes you a hypocrite doesn't it?.

You really are lolable.

Judging my ability to stop within the distance to my vanishing point is something I'm always doing.

Blind crests and blind corners are always treated in a 'what if' manner.

Twat.

**Spearfish** · 22nd April 2010, 19:41

What a diverse bunch bikers are...
some are haters some are the hated
some know it all, some know nothing, the rest know a little about a lot
some only learn from experience others will learn by explanation,
but they all have an opinion and rightly so
remember another life has ended and his family has permanently changed.
Sadly nothing will come from any of these stacked soapboxes and its all going to be repeated again.

**Katman** · 22nd April 2010, 19:48

Originally Posted by Spearfish

Sadly nothing will come from any of these stacked soapboxes and its all going to be repeated again.

Sadly, I think you speak the truth.

**trustme** · 22nd April 2010, 19:52

Originally Posted by Katman

Sadly, I know you speak the truth.

Fixed for you mate, no charge

**Smifffy** · 22nd April 2010, 19:54

Originally Posted by Spearfish

What a diverse bunch bikers are...

Sadly nothing will come from any of these stacked soapboxes and its all going to be repeated again.

I for one am on my soapbox in the hope that the last line will not be true.

I fear that it will be true

And if it proves to be true I will know that I am right

Prove me wrong. Please.

Please let's not have another person killed on the road through the actions (whether careless/reckless/lawful/well-intentioned) of those that are employed to ensure road safety.

Please let's not put enforcement and revenue collection above common sense, good driving and the safety of others.

Please let's not allow the people that can make changes to sweep Paul's death under the carpet, nor the injuries of those in Buller.

Let's do something about it.

Let's do it soon.