Police killing us again!

[scumdog]

Especially a professional driver. Right?

Careful.

People will equate that statement to mean 'expert driver'

Most cops are average drivers, some only average at best.

Of course some are very good drivers too.

Cops are just like the general public they were plucked from, driver training is pretty minimal and not at all a regular item of training unlike the perception of an awful lot of people especially quite few KBers.

[oneofsix]

Careful.

People will equate that statement to mean 'expert driver'

Most cops are average drivers, some only average at best.

Of course some are very good drivers too.

Cops are just like the general public they were plucked from, driver training is pretty minimal and not at all a regular item of training unlike the perception of an awful lot of people especially quite few KBers.

In defense of my previously held perception that they had special advanced training and held special silver or gold licences I feel I must point out that this perception has been encouraged by the police and the media.

[MSTRS:Me]

It all seems pretty cut and dried to me.

Road Code says you must be able to stop within the clear distance ahead of you.

The Blind crest made assessment of the clear distance ahead difficult, thus rider assumed clear distance.

Police officer U-turned too close to the blind crest, reducing the clear distance available.

Due to the reduced clear distance and the (alleged) speed of the rider the opportunity to evade the incident was diminished.

My findings are thus:

1. Police officer acted with dangerous disregard to other road users.
2. Rider (alleged) speed didn't allow enough space to stop in time.

Therefore, Officer guilty of dangerous driving causing death. But rider didn't do himself any favours at all.

There's no point bleating about people doing stupid things in front of you. This will happen constantly to a motorcyclist. A superior rider will take many of these things into account - sometimes you can't do anything about it, other times you can.

In this case I believe the rider exacerbated the problem the Officer created.

Sounds quite reasonable.

Playing Devil's Advocate here...
Somewhere earlier in this thread was a post showing the distance between first possible sight of, and the car blocking the lanes. It wasn't very great to start with.
Something the rider did (or did not do) certainly exacerbated the situation.
(excessive) speed is the easiest one to point a finger at. There is no proof that he was in fact speeding, or at what rate. Much has been made of the force of impact, at what distance between the crown and impact the skid marks started, and where on the roadway. Remember, the rider was a racer, presumably with quick reactions, so it is quite possible that his first instinct was to go round the obstacle. The skid marks started on his opposing lane, which indicates that he was attempting to go round the cop. It is entirely possible that the cop was already reversing into that gap, at which point the rider was committed to that line, his only choice now to hit the brakes hard and locking up the rear. Of course, if this was the case, he wasted valuable braking distance to start with and would have hit the car carrying way more speed than if he had chosen the braking option earlier.
Or the rider had looked down to check his speed (or any other momentary distraction) at the moment he crowned the hill, meaning he could have travelled 20+m before he saw the obstuction.
Or he was speeding. Perhaps he could have been trying to catch up with the ute before it got home.
My point is that the clues left behind will always tell a story. What that story is may still be conjecture. The one thing we all know for a fact is the cop car was in the middle of a 3 point turn in a very stupid place to perform such a manoeuvre.

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[MSTRS:Me]

How so? He maintains that the onus is on the rider to ride in such a manner as to avoid a crash, regardless what else may be happening. FWIW I agree with him, but...
In this case, the rider died, and it's being said there is only one way that might have happened. It is realistic to assume that the rider was travelling at excessive speed, but there are alternatives that lead to the same outcome.
KM never mentions those...

[marie_speeds]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4876...ult-not-guilty
Hmmmmm
This is unreal..... some of the accusers were fellow Police officers......who testified against this thug.

Yep he took the stand and called them a bunch of liars...bonus of course if you ever get arrested in the future by any of those who testified against him....call them liars and plead not guilty

[MSTRS:Me]

Yep he took the stand and called them a bunch of liars...bonus of course if you ever get arrested in the future by any of those who testified against him....call them liars and plead not guilty

But...but...but...
Cops don't tell lies in the stand.
If this is now the case, not a single defended traffic charge can succeed...
Or is it more a case of who's making the accusation of lying?

[marie_speeds]

But...but...but...
Cops don't tell lies in the stand.
If this is now the case, not a single defended traffic charge can succeed...
Or is it more a case of who's making the accusation of lying?

In all truthfulness I was surprised by the verdict as the credibility of the officers who testified against him will now be questioned by defence lawyers in any future cases they handle. As the public only ever get snippets of what is actually said in court, the jury must have heard a lot more than was ever reported by media.

[scracha]

Careful.

Most cops are average drivers, some only average at best.

Of course some are very good drivers too.

Cops are just like the general public they were plucked from, driver training is pretty minimal and not at all a regular item of training unlike the perception of an awful lot of people especially quite few KBers.

Really? It them seems unfathomable that a cop can estimate another driver's speed and issue a ticket based solely on that.

[Spearfish]

at least 10 characters.

[Smifffy]

This being able to stop in half the clear distance etc argument has a fundamental flaw.

Even on a straight unobstructed piece of road, the clear distance in front of you can go from miles to metres in a split second thanks to the actions of an imbecile that chooses to pull out into your path.

[Smifffy]

Careful.

People will equate that statement to mean 'expert driver'

Most cops are average drivers, some only average at best.

Of course some are very good drivers too.

Cops are just like the general public they were plucked from, driver training is pretty minimal and not at all a regular item of training unlike the perception of an awful lot of people especially quite few KBers.

There seem to be a great many of them that feel that they are expert enough to be able to pass instant judgement on the standard of driving of others.

[marie_speeds]

This being able to stop in half the clear distance etc argument has a fundamental flaw.

Even on a straight unobstructed piece of road, the clear distance in front of you can go from miles to metres in a split second thanks to the actions of an imbecile that chooses to pull out into your path.

And that happens so often everyday! So many people I know including myself have very very close near misses as a result of the idiotic actions of other drivers. The one and only car accident I was ever involved in was coming around a corner and finding a milk tanker turning into a driveway. I was lucky, very very lucky. I managed in time to take evasive action and just clipped his bumper...and was grateful to walk away unscratched.

[trustme]

And that happens so often everyday! So many people I know including myself have very very close near misses as a result of the idiotic actions of other drivers. The one and only car accident I was ever involved in was coming around a corner and finding a milk tanker turning into a driveway. I was lucky, very very lucky. I managed in time to take evasive action and just clipped his bumper...and was grateful to walk away unscratched.

Just why was the tanker driver being an idiot. Surely he was doing what he does many times every day , pulling in & out of driveways, it's what milk tanker drivers do.
You should be more grateful that you were not speeding on a motorcycle

[marie_speeds]

Just why was the tanker driver being an idiot. Surely he was doing what he does many times every day , pulling in & out of driveways, it's what milk tanker drivers do.
You should be more grateful that you were not speeding on a motorcycle

It was early morning so suspect that he did it all the time and had never had a problem until I came along that morning. And yes very grateful that I was in a car, managed to take action in time and was not hurt. Truck bumper (minor ding to knock out) cost me $250 in repair bill, my car was another story . But it just goes to show something out of the ordinary can happen so quickly through the actions of others and it usually ends badly unfortunately.