Police killing us again!

[FJRider]

... is a lot less credible and much more stupid than ...

STILL credible ... ... but less expected ...

Amazing how stupid things are ... when it all goes pear shaped ...

But if it turns out ok ...

[Katman]

Or, You could just elaborate on why you think the numbers negate the issue.

One (count them - 1) motorcyclist has been killed by a u-turning police officer.

If you honestly think that figure comes even close to the number of motorcyclists killing themselves (and others) through their own stupidity then there is probably very little I can do to open your mind.

This issue is much the same as the Cheesecutter issue. Too much focus is placed on the single fatality and not enough on addressing the root cause.

[Headbanger]

One (count them - 1) motorcyclist has been killed by a u-turning police officer.

If you honestly think that figure comes even close to the number of motorcyclists killing themselves (and others) through their own stupidity then there is probably very little I can do to open your mind.

Sorry katman, Your argument is just shit.

Complete and utter shit.

They are separate issues, Its not a case of opening my mind, its a case of you engaging yours.

I know you have more intelligence then what you are demonstrating here, So I'll put it down to being pig headed.

[Katman]

They are separate issues,

But you choose to focus solely on the police officer's role in the accident and totally ignore the motorcyclist's degree of culpability?

Not particularly open-minded of you.

[steve_t]

One (count them - 1) motorcyclist has been killed by a u-turning police officer.

One is one too many. What about people injured?

[Headbanger]

But you choose to focus solely on the police officer's role in the accident and totally ignore the motorcyclist's degree of culpability?

Not particularly open-minded of you.

I'm sticking to known facts, the speed of the motorcycle is unknown, The only witness is the person who was the direct cause of the incident.

That aside, I'm well aware of the difference between contributing actions and direct actions.

Even accepting that the speed of the bike contributed to his death it was the actions of the cop that directly caused the incident. Even if the motorcycle had managed to avoid impact it would have still been an incident caused by the cop, the outcome would have changed due to the variance in the contributing factors.

[MSTRS:Me]

I'll ask you the same question I asked Kiwi Graham earlier.....

Are you telling us that you can't stop within 120 metres from 100kph on a dry road?

I'll have a go at answering that...
I'd say that most of us could. But....
Factor in time to process what is happening up ahead, getting hand/foot on the brakes, adjust direction to assist in avoiding obstacle and all on a downhill (a reasonable incline, based on the photos). Not to mention the excess speed and the obstacle moving into your chosen avoidance space too.
Big call to say we could all manage that one.

[Katman]

Even accepting that the speed of the bike contributed to his death it was the actions of the cop that directly caused the incident.

If the motorcyclist had been doing the speed limit I believe he would have been able to stop in time. Therefore the police officer wouldn't have caused any accident.

(I refuse to believe that any motorcyclist can't stop within 120 metres from 100kph. If they can't, they shouldn't be riding motorcycles).

[FJRider]

An interesting read here ...

http://www.3news.co.nz/Motorcyclists...7/Default.aspx

Apparently ... 154 kms/hr is not excessivly fast ...

[Katman]

I'm not sure whats reasonable or not. Ima go read some road tests. If I was asked I'd probably say "that sounds about right" but I've never tried to put numbers on it. Is there published data on it ?(apart from magazine road tests?). serious question in case you're wondering.

From the road codes that I've checked (US, UK and NZ) the generally accepted stopping distance (including reaction time) from 100kph is about 70-75 metres.

[FJRider]

From the road codes that I've checked (US, UK and NZ) the generally accepted stopping distance (including reaction time) from 100kph is about 70-75 metres.

Then I guess neither the ute driver or the motorcyclist ... (who knew each other apparently) were intending to stop ...

[MarkH]

One (count them - 1) motorcyclist has been killed by a u-turning police officer.

Yes, and it is that one incident that we are discussing in this thread. This attitude of "it is only one biker, it isn't a big deal" is astounding. If you aren't interested in this one case then why are you reading this thread and posting in it.

I don't recall anyone arguing that more motorcyclists are killed by police doing U-turns than by their own mistakes - do you think that it is possible that you are on one side of an argument that no one at all is on the other side of? It's like you are trying to pretend that others are saying something opposite of your point just to make yourself believe that people are arguing with you. How many people in this thread have even said that the motorcyclist had no part to play in this accident? Just because most of us think that what the police officer did was criminally negligent, it doesn't mean that the rider didn't also contribute to what happened - both things can be true at the same time!

[Biggles08]

If the motorcyclist had been doing the speed limit I believe he would have been able to stop in time. Therefore the police officer wouldn't have caused any accident.

(I refuse to believe that any motorcyclist can't stop within 120 metres from 100kph. If they can't, they shouldn't be riding motorcycles).

Katman don't be a fuckwit. This was a man...Paul Brown...a mate of many on here who has paid the ultimate price for his mistakes. The only point I can read from those contributing to this thread is, this was a price too high to pay for speeding/bike not up to warrant able standard. The cop fucked up also and should be held accountable...that's all. Paul has paid his price and this is not the point being debated. The cop has paid NOTHING for his fuckup.

[Scuba_Steve]

From the road codes that I've checked (US, UK and NZ) the generally accepted stopping distance (including reaction time) from 100kph is about 70-75 metres.

avg human reaction time from something unexpected to action is put at 2 secs so that leaves 2 secs to bring the bike from 100km/h to 0km/h. Anytime you want to prove yourself Katman I've got a landy your more than welcome to come hit

[Katman]

The cop fucked up also and should be held accountable...that's all. Paul has paid his price and this is not the point being debated. The cop has paid NOTHING for his fuckup.

Believe me Marcus, the fine handed out to the police officer (which, for the record, I also believe is astounding) is only a part of this thread.