Motorcycle accident myths - A public presentation on the facts

**Katman** · 21st May 2010, 08:43

Originally Posted by Bass

Well that was a useful and thorough presentation, as expected, and yet I am disappointed.

I, too, was rather disappointed with it. Such a brief mention of the part that riders attitudes play in the accident rates made it seem to me that the professor wants to remain onside with motorcyclists more than he wants to get to the root of the problem.

I was also disappointed to see him, in his own way, manipulate figures. His graph showing the rise in the number of motorcycles superimposed over the graph showing a drop in the number of accidents per 10,000 motorcycles (not motorcyclists) is rather misleading. My poll, as it currently stands, shows that there are almost twice the number of motorcycles out there than the number of motorcyclists that can ride (and have accidents on) them.

**quickbuck** · 21st May 2010, 09:44

Originally Posted by Katman

My poll, as it currently stands, shows that there are almost twice the number of motorcycles out there than the number of motorcyclists that can ride (and have accidents on) them.

One could argue that that there is MORE than twice

**bogan** · 21st May 2010, 09:46

Originally Posted by Katman

I was also disappointed to see him, in his own way, manipulate figures. His graph showing the rise in the number of motorcycles superimposed over the graph showing a drop in the number of accidents per 10,000 motorcycles (not motorcyclists) is rather misleading. My poll, as it currently stands, shows that there are almost twice the number of motorcycles out there than the number of motorcyclists that can ride (and have accidents on) them.

yeh that is quite misleading, as you shouldn't put rates and absolutes on the same graph. 2 different graphs, or having the accidents in absolute would paint a different picture.

edit, wheres this poll btw?

**dipshit** · 21st May 2010, 09:57

Originally Posted by bogan

yeh that is quite misleading, as you shouldn't put rates and absolutes on the same graph. 2 different graphs, or having the accidents in absolute would paint a different picture.

Precisely. Very misleading in the way he has presented it. Either show accidents per 10,000 by itself or number of motorcycles vs total number of accidents.

Like for example one year you could have 10,000 motorcycles on the road and 100 accidents. Next year you could have 20,000 motorcycles on the road and 199 accidents. The accident rate per 10,000 would show a drop and look more impressive when plotted against the increase in motorcycles. However it is very misleading.

I always find it ironic when spokesmen for motorcyclists are more guilty of the very things they are accusing the government of.

**JMemonic** · 21st May 2010, 09:59

Originally Posted by Katman

I, too, was rather disappointed with it. Such a brief mention of the part that riders attitudes play in the accident rates made it seem to me that the professor wants to remain onside with motorcyclists more than he wants to get to the root of the problem.

I was also disappointed to see him, in his own way, manipulate figures. His graph showing the rise in the number of motorcycles superimposed over the graph showing a drop in the number of accidents per 10,000 motorcycles (not motorcyclists) is rather misleading. My poll, as it currently stands, shows that there are almost twice the number of motorcycles out there than the number of motorcyclists that can ride (and have accidents on) them.

And that is no different to how the AA, ACC, MoT, and politicians show the stats INTERNATIONALLY, you love your whole attitude thing even though the good Professor has shown ALL attitudes need to be improved on the road. Your the one here trying to manipulate the facts to fit you pet topic. BTW Professor Lamb is a motorcyclist.

**dipshit** · 21st May 2010, 10:02

Originally Posted by JMemonic

And that is no different to how the AA, ACC, MoT, and politicians show the stats INTERNATIONALLY.

Got an example..??

I myself have seen more bullshit coming from motorcyclists than anything.

**Katman** · 21st May 2010, 10:17

Originally Posted by JMemonic

And that is no different to how the AA, ACC, MoT, and politicians show the stats INTERNATIONALLY, you love your whole attitude thing even though the good Professor has shown ALL attitudes need to be improved on the road. Your the one here trying to manipulate the facts to fit you pet topic. BTW Professor Lamb is a motorcyclist.

Your whole "they manipulate figures so we should be allowed to" argument is laughable.

If we want to be taken seriously we need to rise above those sort of playground antics.

**T.W.R** · 21st May 2010, 10:21

Originally Posted by Katman

If we want to be taken seriously we need to rise above those sort of playground antics.

You should take heed of your own words

and stop bleeting here and get out in the public eye on your pedestal and start preaching your cynical ramblings out in the open

**JMemonic** · 21st May 2010, 10:23

Originally Posted by dipshit

Got an example..??

I myself have seen more bullshit coming from motorcyclists than anything.

What do you need an example of? I an lost to understand this, given as was stated earlier this is a paper for presentation at an international conference to be held in the USA one would be advised to write such a paper to set standards. There is nothing more untruthful than statistic when only part of the data is given, Professor Lamb has given you a collation of data derived from the crash stats for New Zealand, it has shown the figures to be different to the various government bodies trying to screw motorcycles and you still want believe the government figures?

There seems to be no point trying to dissuade you and Katman from your position of all motorcycle collisions are the riders fault, you both seem to have a strong belief that government agencies are there to do right by us, honestly nothing would convince either of you that until you get hit by a car and the driver "says sorry mate I did not see you".

Oh and an aside although the investigation has not been completed it would seen the recent death in your own region seems to preclude you whole argument that we as motorcyclists are always at fault.

**JMemonic** · 21st May 2010, 10:27

Originally Posted by Katman

Your whole "they manipulate figures so we should be allowed to" argument is laughable.

Is that how you actually read what I said? I never said that "And that is no different to how the AA, ACC, MoT, and politicians show the stats INTERNATIONALLY."

I never said anything about manipulation but if thats how you read fine nothing anyone says will ever alter you opinion,

**Katman** · 21st May 2010, 10:29

Originally Posted by JMemonic

There seems to be no point trying to dissuade you and Katman from your position of all motorcycle collisions are the riders fault,

Here's a challenge for you.

If you can point me to one post where I have ever said "All motorcycle accidents are the motorcyclist's fault" I will not post on Kiwibiker ever again.

You keen? Or are you just full of shit?

**MSTRS:Me** · 21st May 2010, 10:31

FFS. Now we have our favourite KBers grizzling that someone is 'manipulating stats'. Just what do they think brought us to this point? Veritas in vino?

**dipshit** · 21st May 2010, 10:34

Originally Posted by JMemonic

it has shown the figures to be different to the various government bodies trying to screw motorcycles

Example...???

**dipshit** · 21st May 2010, 10:51

Originally Posted by MSTRS

FFS. Now we have our favourite KBers grizzling that someone is 'manipulating stats'. Just what do they think brought us to this point? Veritas in vino?

People believed BRONZ's bullshit so much that they didn't believe the real MoT stats when it was put to them.

**p.dath** · 21st May 2010, 10:52

Originally Posted by Katman

Here's a challenge for you.

If you can point me to one post where I have ever said "All motorcycle accidents are the motorcyclist's fault" I will not post on Kiwibiker ever again.

You keen? Or are you just full of shit?

I can. It's this post.

EDIT: But please don't leave.