That fucking sneaky give way rule

[SMOKEU]

Some of those give way rules trip me out too much.

[Urano]

i've been studying your road rules for a while, even because it seems not necessary for me to have any oral or practical examination to drive...
nonetheless i'd really like not to crash on the first corner... (i'm going to let you know the timetable of my car movements, so to be possible for you to get safe at home )

well, my useless two cents on the question is that your politicians are a bit confused...
you drive on the left, but give way in the right, then use km and not miles, but you have "dollars"... what did they do? put all the possibilities in a blender and took out what remained?
now, keep focused... i mean... you drive on the left... why, for God's sake, you have to give way to vehicle coming from your RIGHT????? on a normal 4 way intersection, turning on your left, it's absolutely nonsense. and then the T.

well, about the Ts i had the same opinion, then i saw the light: there, MAYBE, it is possible to make sense...
in italy, as in every other part of the world, i think, when i come to a T i have to give way to both the directions not turning in the base of the T, and also to people turning from the opposite lane to the base of the T.
considering that in most occasions you have anyway to wait and make sure that even people coming from the nearest lane and turning down DO effectively turn and they did not forgot the indicator or changed their mind at last second and so on, it ends that you wait for the people from one direction, you wait for the others, and you spend half your afternoon waiting for 50 meters to bang your car in the move with tyre screech...
when i've seen your T rule, it made sense. ok, you have to turn from the base to the right: people coming from the left and turning down have to wait for you, and remaining in the middle of their lane they force others behind them to wait or at least to keep left edge, opening room for you.
so you have to wait only for one lane to free.

it could be pretty intelligent, after all.
if i don't turn down a bridge not being used to drive on the left, i'll let you know after a practical use...

[Mudfart]

i was riding my bike to work last might, and at the T intersection, the guy who by law must give way to me, absolutely had no intention of doing so, and thats what I expect, thats what I give and thats what I have always received. Amen.

[schrodingers cat]

When it comes to uncontrolled intersections I know my rules but I use tham as a guideline. What I watch for is their eyes, the position of their hands and what their wheels are doing. Same at roundabouts. Anything else is a bonus.
Its the law of scale and 2 wheels generally is the loser...

[davebullet]

The give way rules are easy and haven't changed in the 24 years I've had my license. I've seen people's understanding deteriorate.

The reason people find them hard - is because of inconsistent application due to people who don't care, are in a rush, have a 4wd mentality (I'm bigger, so I have right of way), etc...

Changing the rules, won't change attitudes. I think it would just lead to more confusion (from old bastards like me).

If they change the rules, a retest should be mandatory. It doesn't have to be a practical. A visit to the AA or similar where you do the current learners multichoice.

[Jantar]

Many years ago I was given a piecde of advice that was perfect.

"Irrespective of any road rules, you don't have "right of way" until the other driver gives it to you!"

[BMWST?]

Really? I'd heard that abolishment of the left-turning traffic fiasco was on the cards, but not anything else.
The basic premise of our give way rules (apart from the 'left-turning traffic' nonsense) is "Give way to your right", which is why the LHS of the T has to give way to the bottom of the T. If they change this rule specifically for T intersections, then it would be at variance with all other intersections. That makes no sense (so 'they' probably will adopt it).
I believe what happens oftentimes is people have silly made up rules, like "the little road gives way to the bigger road", and often the bottom of the T is a narrower road than the through road.
The basic thing here is your average Kiwi driver is an eejit. That's why in nearly 11 years of living on my street, I've had two (2!!) people give way to me when I turn right out of the supermarket carpark and they're turning right into it. I've also had numerous people NOT give way to me at the top end of our street (a T) when I turn right and they're coming from my left to turn right into our street.
Cocks.

well it might change....there may be an overide which says something like,people on side road give way to people on main road....which is even more variable than the current rules

[Fluffy Cat]

[QUOTE=BMWST?;1129760053]well it might change....there may be an overide which says something like,people on side road give way to people on main road....which is even more variable than the current rules[/QUOT

Nail on head...the simplest solution is often the best. Complex systems lead to misinterpretation. Just what we have here in NZ.

[Max Preload]

And when I require to give way, I fucking well do it

in 19 yrs of driving i have never given way from LHS of T (I am turning right off the main arterial).

That means you don't. Clearly you are a complete fuckwit like so many on the road - completely oblivious. I always toot at arseholes like you.

[Mudfart]

ahahaha what ever stress monkey.
and how much do you stress out at all those tens of thousands who are incorrectly indicating around roundabouts?
because a crap load of people are doing it wrong, yet think they are right.
living with you must be bliss.

[bogan]

ahahaha what ever stress monkey.
and how much do you stress out at all those tens of thousands who are incorrectly indicating around roundabouts?
because a crap load of people are doing it wrong, yet think they are right.
living with you must be bliss.

half the time there isn't even time to indicate before you leave anyways, just straightline that shit

[bikemike]

[QUOTE=Fluffy Cat;1129760101]

well it might change....there may be an overide which says something like,people on side road give way to people on main road....which is even more variable than the current rules[/QUOT

Nail on head...the simplest solution is often the best. Complex systems lead to misinterpretation. Just what we have here in NZ.

I agree with this. The rules aren't hard to understand, even for challenged individuals. But that's not what matters; what matters is how intuitive it is to apply the rules in practice. The debate that rambles on and on, pro and anti, change the rules and keep them is all we need to show that the system we use is flawed.

I had a woman ranting at me the other day, as I sat co-pilot with a learner car driver. We had stalled waiting to turn right at an uncontrolled T - on the side road. Woman driving on through road wanted to turn right and gave way to us. She got very irate that we did not move and eventually I gestured to her that we were stalled. She muttered on about 'the road rules' as she went around - and then promptly parked on the wrong side of the road. WTF?

I am a Pom, and though I have been here eight years and remember little of the specific rules there I do remember one thing. One very important thing. I never ever had to think twice about who had right of way. Isn't that the way it should be? Even when I've been back, twice, I can jump in a car and lo, the world is as it should be.

Indeed, there we do think of main road and minor road, but more literally in a sense of THROUGH road and side road. I can get off my through road before you can join it - I think. (It's hard to think of it from here, I'd need to go check the rules). This works well. The objection might be the flow of traffic, but I'd say three things to that:

1) Over there this is solved by liberal use of roundabouts, slip roads and traffic lights. We have less of those.

2) The flow of traffic is messed up with our rules here. Say I'm going through, in front is a left turner, ahead a right turner. If I have room to squeeze past the left turner I jinx the whole operation. The left turner has to watch me to see whether I will STAY IN MY BLOODY LANE or go round, the right turner has to decide whether or not his passenger door is about to get T-boned by me, or if it is safe to assume the rule. I have to watch my back for the guy behind who can't understand why I am sticking to my lane and he even tries to go round me..... The the left turner gives up and goes, just as the right turner goes, and the pedestrian steps out.

3) At the uncontrolled T, the right turner from the side road has to consider not only whether the right turner, on his left is going to yield, but whether the guy behind that guy is going to zip round the inside (on the pavement or verge if necessary) to continue as unimpeded as possible on the through road, and therefore jeopardise my right turn. I'm sure as hell I will sit and wait until - ooh, until it's safe to go.

Oh, and if there's oncoming traffic and I'm waiting to turn right into a side road, then I also need to know whether the guy on my right waiting to pull out of the side street is actually waiting to go left (so I can go) or right (I yield). I may not be able to tell from his position in the road, or his indicators.

Too much divining required.

[Max Preload]

and how much do you stress out at all those tens of thousands who are incorrectly indicating around roundabouts?
because a crap load of people are doing it wrong, yet think they are right.

If it stresses you out so much, start to do it properly or stay the fuck off the road, cock.

[Donzzz]

The best bit is when the dopey bugger waves "thanks" at you, as though you gave way out of the kindness of your heart.

Haha lol, same. I always give way, sometime dipping my headlight to catch his attention. I get an appreciative wave almost everytime...

[Mudfart]

If it stresses you out so much, start to do it properly or stay the fuck off the road, cock.

last night when i went to work, 4 cars puilled up at the T intersection, all assumed right of way, and i gave it to them. they were by law in the wrong, and one was a cop car. i have no problem with letting them go, or i become yet another car vs bike accident.
but hey maybe i should just go for it, for fear of some some anonomous internet user getting personal with abusive directed language.