Tickets for 4km/h over the speed limit this Queens Birthday weekend

[MarkH]

The trouble is the morons in charge keep reducing the tolerance ever downwards until a large number of motorists are getting tickets just over the limit. Most of these motorists will never have a serious accident and are generally law abiding. What this does is put a large section of the public offside with the police. Then their job gets a lot harder in other areas 'cos cooperation goes out of the window.

The problem with a really small tolerance like 5kph or less is that cars are driven by humans, which are analogue devices rather than precision digital devices - you just can't ride/drive to the exact kph you try to. So the cops sit on the bottom of a hill and try to 'catch someone out' when their speed creeps up a few kph. Then they rub salt into the wounds of the pissed off motorists by putting ads on TV going on about speed being dangerous and it's all about safety.

Travelling at 120kph is NOT inherently dangerous and if it weren't for the law and the possibility of getting caught I would travel 120 most of the time on the open road. Sure you are going to be worse off if you crash at 120 than if you crash at 100, but then by the same token you are worse off if you crash at 100 than at 80, or 80 rather than 60 or . . . I may be safer at 20kph, but I am happier at 120kph and I'll get to my destination in a reasonable time.

[yachtie10]

Demerits for 20k over = 20 demerits. 30k over = 35 demerits. 35k and up to 50k over = 50 demerits.

really?
the notice I recieved last month says " Speeding offences incur 35 demerit points " no graduation mentioned
and it was for 20km/h over the limit

[Sentox]

really?
the notice I recieved last month says " Speeding offences incur 35 demerit points " no graduation mentioned
and it was for 20km/h over the limit

http://www.police.govt.nz/faq/items/15327

[duckonin]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/nationalcrime/3780052 buggar hope this works, 'Fane Troy' a cop in Taupo has been doing the 5k limit in the area since Feb..

[scumdog]

really?
the notice I recieved last month says " Speeding offences incur 35 demerit points " no graduation mentioned
and it was for 20km/h over the limit

Why would they mention 'graduation method' when it doesn't affect your particular cases???

(If you had got a 'proper' ticket you would have seen the graduated increase in demerits on it.)

[rustic101]

Valid reason one - raced to a job, rape in progress, Albert Park toilets in Auckland. On arrival, the girl was being stabbed. He was so intent on hurting her, he didn't hear the sirens and sound of the rapidly approaching patrol cars. She lived. She was thankful we got there as fast as we did... real story.

Refute that.......

Patrick, I am not going to refute what you said happened! However counter (as I said) your argument for speeding.

What you have provided is an excuse not a justifiable rational reason to exceed the limit.

Now call me callous, call me what you what. However; like most excuses you have failed to mention other factors that would determine the outcome of the incident, like:

• Time delay in the informant contacting Police,
• Location of the informant in relation to the incident, (what could the informant see or hear)
• Credibility and content of informants information (until your arrival it may have just been a Dommy being misinterpreted),
• Time of day (relevant to both foot and vehicle traffic),
• Were you acting alone or being directed to an SFP, (speeding only to wait)
• Your location in relation to the incident (did you come from Fort, or Cook St, were you already patrolling/ attending a job if so where?),
• Other attending Units location in relation to the incident,
• Other units not logged on but in close proximity,

I could ask many more questions. In the cold light of day these would just reinforce that you had no justifiable reason to speed and that your speed would not have changed the outcome. Again call me callous, but you could not have prevent either the Rape or the Stabbing, as for her living? That again raises more questions; what was the weapon, where were the entry wounds etc.

Had she died it would have just been handed over to CIB as another Homicide.

Finally you stated 'She was thankful we got there as fast as we did...'. She would however not have been thankful if you did not get there at all due to crashing as result of your speeding.

I could list the number of alleged offenders that have successfully decamped and evaded due to Police crashes or the number of victims that have had a delayed attendance due to the same.

[smoky]

The problem with a really small tolerance like 5kph or less is that cars are driven by humans, which are analogue devices rather than precision digital devices - you just can't ride/drive to the exact kph you try to. So the cops sit on the bottom of a hill and try to 'catch someone out' when their speed creeps up a few kph. Then they rub salt into the wounds of the pissed off motorists by putting ads on TV going on about speed being dangerous and it's all about safety.

Travelling at 120kph is NOT inherently dangerous and if it weren't for the law and the possibility of getting caught I would travel 120 most of the time on the open road. Sure you are going to be worse off if you crash at 120 than if you crash at 100, but then by the same token you are worse off if you crash at 100 than at 80, or 80 rather than 60 or . . . I may be safer at 20kph, but I am happier at 120kph and I'll get to my destination in a reasonable time.

And the Police are there to serve who? - the public or the government? don't we pay them, don't they swear to protect and serve the public, aren't they as PUBLIC SERVANTS bound by the State Sector Act 1988 to "be imbued with the spirit of service to the community". Well no actually the Government now classifies them as outside the Act in order for them to now serve the Governments interest not the publics interest - they are not the Police we grew up with, the Police the NZ public want, they are there to impose government rule

There is something very wrong with any government that want's that kind of control

[duckonin]

And the Police are there to serve who? - the public or the government? don't we pay them, don't they swear to protect and serve the public, aren't they as PUBLIC SERVANTS bound by the State Sector Act 1988 to "be imbued with the spirit of service to the community". Well no actually the Government now classifies them as outside the Act in order for them to now serve the Governments interest not the publics interest - they are not the Police we grew up with, the Police the NZ public want, they are there to impose government rule

There is something very wrong with any government that want's that kind of control

This statement is so true...

[caseye]

And the Police are there to serve who? - the public or the government? don't we pay them, don't they swear to protect and serve the public, aren't they as PUBLIC SERVANTS bound by the State Sector Act 1988 to "be imbued with the spirit of service to the community". Well no actually the Government now classifies them as outside the Act in order for them to now serve the Governments interest not the publics interest - they are not the Police we grew up with, the Police the NZ public want, they are there to impose government rule

There is something very wrong with any government that want's that kind of control

SHIT! man that is right on the Nail.Pefectly true too, Helen did that, made em hers not ours, Bitch!

[caseye]

Patrick, I am not going to refute what you said happened! However counter (as I said) your argument for speeding.

What you have provided is an excuse not a justifiable rational reason to exceed the limit.

Now call me callous, call me what you what. However; like most excuses you have failed to mention other factors that would determine the outcome of the incident, like:

• Time delay in the informant contacting Police,
• Location of the informant in relation to the incident, (what could the informant see or hear)
• Credibility and content of informants information (until your arrival it may have just been a Dommy being misinterpreted),
• Time of day (relevant to both foot and vehicle traffic),
• Were you acting alone or being directed to an SFP, (speeding only to wait)
• Your location in relation to the incident (did you come from Fort, or Cook St, were you already patrolling/ attending a job if so where?),
• Other attending Units location in relation to the incident,
• Other units not logged on but in close proximity,

I could ask many more questions. In the cold light of day these would just reinforce that you had no justifiable reason to speed and that your speed would not have changed the outcome. Again call me callous, but you could not have prevent either the Rape or the Stabbing, as for her living? That again raises more questions; what was the weapon, where were the entry wounds etc.

Had she died it would have just been handed over to CIB as another Homicide.

Finally you stated 'She was thankful we got there as fast as we did...'. She would however not have been thankful if you did not get there at all due to crashing as result of your speeding.

I could list the number of alleged offenders that have successfully decamped and evaded due to Police crashes or the number of victims that have had a delayed attendance due to the same.

Who are you trying to kid???.Anyone here want to help this poster out?
If the young lady in question was your daughter, wife, girlfriend would you be happy if the attending POlice obeyed the speed limit and got there after the event.
There is a time and a Place, this is definitely one of them.
Yes some offenders have got away with their henious crimes, but many more of them have been apprehended and put away by diligent Police doing thier jobs and taking the risk of crashing and being prosecuted if they do so and are proved to be in the wrong.
Here we go again, give the crims everything they ask for.
It's not worth your life.
I've seen footage( another thing that our kids should not be exposed to, news media BS) of an offender taking everything he wanted, getting his victims to do his bidding and then shooting them dead! On our (thats here in New Zealand) Televisions.Did being a lie down, I give up, whimp as prescribed by our own Police experts????, help that poor bastard?
If criminals are given carte blanche to do as they pleasae, they will.
We will be raped, mugged and killed in ever increasing numbers in direct proportion to our gutlessness,weak willedness(hey a new word) as prescribed by so called experts who preach the "give it too them it's safer" approach in fact should be saying,FIGHT BACK, with everything you've got, make the barstards work for their criminally gotten gains.
The message should be, come on crim , try it here, we will deal to you and our law will put you away for good.
Ha some chance of that here in NZ with so many weak willed ninnies about.

[Max Preload]

I am happy to ride at 0mcg of alcohol per 100mg of blood (I think I got those units right)

80mg/100mL is the adult blood alcohol limit.

[yachtie10]

Why would they mention 'graduation method' when it doesn't affect your particular cases???

(If you had got a 'proper' ticket you would have seen the graduated increase in demerits on it.)

why wouldnt graduation affect my case?
why isnt it a proper ticket? I was handed it by a man in a blue uniform on the side of the road was he not a propoer policeman
BTW I am happy if the demerits are lower, but that is not what I have been advised in writing

[rustic101]

Who are you trying to kid???.
If the young lady in question was your daughter, wife, girlfriend would you be happy if the attending POlice obeyed the speed limit and got there after the event.
There is a time and a Place, this is definitely one of them.
Yes some offenders have got away with their henious crimes, but many more of them have been apprehended and put away by diligent Police doing thier jobs and taking the risk of crashing and being prosecuted if they do so and are proved to be in the wrong.
Here we go again, give the crims everything they ask for.
It's not worth your life.
I've seen footage( another thing that our kids should not be exposed to, news media BS) of an offender taking everything he wanted, getting his victims to do his bidding and then shooting them dead! On our (thats here in New Zealand) Televisions.Did being a lie down, I give up, whimp as prescribed by our own Police experts????, help that poor bastard?
If criminals are given carte blanche to do as they pleasae, they will.
We will be raped, mugged and killed in ever increasing numbers in direct proportion to our gutlessness,weak willedness(hey a new word) as prescribed by so called experts who preach the "give it too them it's safer" approach in fact should be saying,FIGHT BACK, with everything you've got, make the barstards work for their criminally gotten gains.

Stop and take a breath Caseye!

Your alarmist approach is a typical knee jerk reaction which is based off hysteria and fear rather than fact. Most of reply needs to address the Justice system not the Enforcement system.

People die, are raped and hurt everyday. If it was my Mother, wife, daughter, sister or brother that is totally irrelevant. Speeding to get to them will not prevent them from being raped, beaten or hurt.

Not speeding to an incident does not make a unit or Police gutless or weak. Fact a Unit speeding to an incident creates more of a risk to the innocent than harm to the victim.

Conversely you need to address why a Unit may be engaged in a Pursuit. If the pursuit is the result of, 'fails to Give Way' or 'I suspect...x, y, z' the Offence out-ways the reason for the risk. There are always better ways to catch a bad guy other than sitting on their tail and chasing them.

To counter your argument about giving alleged criminals carte blanch access to keep repeating Offences, lies with the sentencing laws not the Enforcement laws . Police Unit speeding to stop something already happening is a far higher risk if it does not get there!!

Most serious incidents are not about (cuse the pun) 'charging in guns blazing', its about assessment of the risks and tactical options. If you charge into a situation without due consideration you then become a victim.

Shit, if it was up to me I would have shot Burton, Bell, Hotene to name a few in the head, saving NZ thousands of dollars and repeat offences. However that does not make anyone brave.

Speeding to an incident is not going to prevent a Beating, Rape or Homicide.

[red mermaid]

If you read the whole ticket, about 2 thirds of the way down (below the line of the speed you were doing, I think) you will see a series of boxes that detail how many demerits you get for the speed you were doing over the limit.







i

[Max Preload]

Speeding to an incident is not going to prevent a Beating, Rape or Homicide.

But it may reduce harm to others, catch the assailant and help preserve evidence.

why wouldnt graduation affect my case?
why isnt it a proper ticket? I was handed it by a man in a blue uniform on the side of the road was he not a propoer policeman
BTW I am happy if the demerits are lower, but that is not what I have been advised in writing

It would, so you write back and point out they are wrong. Provided speeding was the only offence on that occassion. See Part 2