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Thread: Where is biking going, is the direction what we are prepared to live with?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conquiztador View Post
    At times it can be hard to get across what one is talking about in writing on a message board. So I forgive you. I thought I made sense. Katman, who is no fan of mine, understood and added his bit that I take as an approval of my statement.

    But for you:
    I ride because I enjoy riding. I care not re fashion statements, bling (even if I have been known to have bikes in shows), conforming to anything. For me it is a very selfish experience. I only ride because it makes me feel good. I could not care less what my riding does to others, or what others feel when riding.

    My point was simply that I can feel the walls closing in on bikers. Bit by bit what we take for granted is chipped away. Often in such small chips that we dont even notice. We will all one day wake up and say: Shit, what happened, how did it ever come to this? If it stops at day glow vests and restrictors we can probably count our self lucky. But I have a suspicion that it will not stop there; I can see roads that do not allow motorbikes, no pillions allowed, huge insurance fees if we do not adhere to all regulations. Even to a stage where if we did not have a reflex on our wheel the insurance is void. I can se only factory bikes allowed (no individuality and customising. If you think this can not happen, Germany already has this in place). I can se no overtaking allowed when on bikes, yearly training to be allowed to ride, dayglow bikles only, cc restrictions (I expect 650cc), bikes that do not have latest brakes and bits not being allowed. I can also see each bike equipped with a chip that police can read to see if we did speed and follow by satellite to figure out where we been.

    Am I dreaming? Nightmares these are. But sadly I think it is all coming just a question of when.
    OK I got you this time - sometimes its duifficult getting feelings across in black and white. So your main concern is how personal liberties and individual freedom of choice are being eroded. I agree. Sadly this is not just happening in motorbikes. It is happening in society in general. Look at the way cars are going too. Electronic sensors that can detect roads and steer for you, cars that network with each other and latch onto the back of each other electronically so that following speeds are safely maintaned, sensors for auto braking to maintain following distance, acohol breath detctors, eye tiredness detectors, etc.

    When cars are viewed as a networked arrangement of vehicles that interact electronically with each other to get to the place they are going in the most efficient and safe manner, and even interact with traffic lights to maximise traffic flow, then you can see how freedom of car driving will be restricted. Probably much safer and quicker and less jams, but also much more restricted. The only freedom of choice left is what color the car is, and where you are going.

    I guess when you chuck a 200bhp cruise missile with a potentially inexperienced rider and a devil may care attitude in to this mix, we become a bit like a "turd in the drinking water" to the law...

    Vehicles (and esp. bikes) by their very nature are unsafe. There has to be a balance between freedom and safety. But this balance is affected by incidents. For example I might be a lot more open to networked traffic if my children were involved in a car accident due to reckless driving. The balance is affected when riders do stupid things on the roads that should only be done on tracks, and the government has to cough up for it.

    Thats why riders have to act like adults in order to not be treated like children.
    The one thing man learns from history is that man does not learn from history
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    Quote Originally Posted by quickbuck View Post
    It could be that I have one years experience repeated 33 times!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-Soul View Post
    OK I got you this time - sometimes its duifficult getting feelings across in black and white. So your main concern is how personal liberties and individual freedom of choice are being eroded. I agree. Sadly this is not just happening in motorbikes. It is happening in society in general. Look at the way cars are going too. Electronic sensors that can detect roads and steer for you, cars that network with each other and latch onto the back of each other electronically so that following speeds are safely maintaned, sensors for auto braking to maintain following distance, acohol breath detctors, eye tiredness detectors, etc.

    When cars are viewed as a networked arrangement of vehicles that interact electronically with each other to get to the place they are going in the most efficient and safe manner, and even interact with traffic lights to maximise traffic flow, then you can see how freedom of car driving will be restricted. Probably much safer and quicker and less jams, but also much more restricted. The only freedom of choice left is what color the car is, and where you are going.

    I guess when you chuck a 200bhp cruise missile with a potentially inexperienced rider and a devil may care attitude in to this mix, we become a bit like a "turd in the drinking water" to the law...

    Vehicles (and esp. bikes) by their very nature are unsafe. There has to be a balance between freedom and safety. But this balance is affected by incidents. For example I might be a lot more open to networked traffic if my children were involved in a car accident due to reckless driving. The balance is affected when riders do stupid things on the roads that should only be done on tracks, and the government has to cough up for it.

    Thats why riders have to act like adults in order to not be treated like children.
    You didn't get that across to badly.
    I'm not sure I "want" to agree bikes are inherently dangerous, it just depends on what the benchmark is, but I'm not sure that statement isn't just me not wanting to agree?
    I'm a commuter not a weekend Rossie so maybe I see biking differently through a jaded visor, but to be honest I find commuting on a bike has more personal hardship that risk eg: getting gear on and off each end, weather etc, and being forced to get on the job of riding and leaving job shyt behind.(not that the last one is bad)

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spearfish View Post
    You didn't get that across to badly.
    I'm not sure I "want" to agree bikes are inherently dangerous, it just depends on what the benchmark is, but I'm not sure that statement isn't just me not wanting to agree?
    I am a commuter too- I know what you mean- but its worth it anyday. So far...
    I guess danger is relative. When you think about it, moving at anything above sprinting speed with minimal protection is pretty dangerous,, purely because lots of things can go wrong, and the human body is not adapted for impacts at those speeds.

    Lets face it, life is relatively a bit more risky when you dont drag a steel cage and four armchairs around with you...

    Interestingly enough, a cheetah would probably not find it that dangerous as they run at 120km/h and jump into gazelles backs, and roll with them as part of a days work of feeding themselves. Although if they hit a lamp post... (a bit off topic I know, but the concept caught my imagination).

    As an aside, why DONT some sports bikes come out with a (small) steel cage and lots of air bags within them?
    The one thing man learns from history is that man does not learn from history
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    Quote Originally Posted by quickbuck View Post
    It could be that I have one years experience repeated 33 times!

  4. #64
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    i don't think they would be called 'sports' bikes after that modification.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conquiztador View Post
    Group rides in dayglow below speed limit is not what it was about.
    As far as I know it still isn't.

    Is it?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbo89 View Post
    i don't think they would be called 'sports' bikes after that modification.
    Fair enough - what if it was a light, sexy cage?
    The one thing man learns from history is that man does not learn from history
    Calvin and Hobbes: The surest sign of intelligent life out there is that it has not tried to contact us.
    Its easier to apologise than ask for permission.
    Wise words:
    Quote Originally Posted by quickbuck View Post
    It could be that I have one years experience repeated 33 times!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-Soul View Post
    Fair enough - what if it was a light, sexy cage?
    Like this you mean...


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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conquiztador View Post
    Like this you mean...

    Nope.
    Which part of "light and sexy" didn't you understand?
    The one thing man learns from history is that man does not learn from history
    Calvin and Hobbes: The surest sign of intelligent life out there is that it has not tried to contact us.
    Its easier to apologise than ask for permission.
    Wise words:
    Quote Originally Posted by quickbuck View Post
    It could be that I have one years experience repeated 33 times!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-Soul View Post
    Nope.
    Which part of "light and sexy" didn't you understand?
    Well... I have no idea how a light and sexy cage looks like. In fact, I can not think of once I have seen a cage and it had made my willy stand.

    May the bridges I burn light the way.

    Follow Vinny's MX racing on www.mxvinny.com


  10. #70
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    I blame the (insert name here) party!!!!
    Bunch of fucking losers.
    I wish they would fuck off and die.
    Reactor Online. Sensors Online. Weapons Online. All Systems Nominal.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conquiztador View Post
    Well... I have no idea how a light and sexy cage looks like. In fact, I can not think of once I have seen a cage and it had made my willy stand.
    Good point. But there must be a designer somewhere that can do it. I have a few ideas myself...
    The one thing man learns from history is that man does not learn from history
    Calvin and Hobbes: The surest sign of intelligent life out there is that it has not tried to contact us.
    Its easier to apologise than ask for permission.
    Wise words:
    Quote Originally Posted by quickbuck View Post
    It could be that I have one years experience repeated 33 times!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by R-Soul View Post
    Good point. But there must be a designer somewhere that can do it. I have a few ideas myself...
    lets see your ideas! draw em up and scan them up on here...

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gibbo89 View Post
    lets see your ideas! draw em up and scan them up on here...
    I am first pondering patent protection... although I would never get one of the manufacturers to try it - they are too fat cat I reckon...
    The one thing man learns from history is that man does not learn from history
    Calvin and Hobbes: The surest sign of intelligent life out there is that it has not tried to contact us.
    Its easier to apologise than ask for permission.
    Wise words:
    Quote Originally Posted by quickbuck View Post
    It could be that I have one years experience repeated 33 times!

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