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Thread: Nelson blitz on bikers...

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by red mermaid View Post
    And now you are making up that we have a constitution?
    We certainly don't have a single constitution document in the American Style.

    But the 1986 Constitution Act ties together a number of separate Acts, all of which taken together form a constitution. This includes the 1990 Bill of Rights Act.

    It also Enumerates the Rights of Citizens against the state; enacts into law some of New Zealand's obligations under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

    Basically, New Zealanders have the right to be able to go about their business without being subject to random search and seizure.

    The Police and Government have taken the view that the Bill of Rights is not supreme legislation, indeed that was how it was written.

    But the Courts are not always accepting that principal, indeed they have regularly taken the view that it is de-facto supreme legislation, and can only be overturned with extreme cause.

    So far, no one has ever challenged traffic stops.

    But there have been several very quiet ruling about Fisheries.

    Fisheries officers have for many years conducted random searches of vehicles, boats and people who they believe have been fishing. Generally speaking fisheries officers rely on section 192 of the Fisheries Act , which enables them to conduct warrant-less searches.

    They exercised this right against United Fisheries, when they seized a swath of records and computer equipment.

    Interestingly, the Judge was not convinced that Fisheries had overstepped the mark, as they had some good evidence that the law had been broken. But nonetheless, he found the seizure to be in-conflict with the Bill of Rights. He ordered the Ministry of Fisheries NOT to examine the seized equipment or records, until they had proven their case to the court. The main reason being, in a very complex judgement, that their may be material seized that is not relevant to the "due cause" used to justify the search.

    In another ruling, a man was stopped at a fisheries checkpoint.

    He refused to allow his vehicle to be searched, and Fisheries officers arrested him for obstruction, and searched his vehicle anyway.

    The court ruled that refusing to allow a search is not obstruction. If the officer has the legal power to conduct the search he can do it without the authority of the vehicle owner. If he does not have the legal authority, then it is not obstruction to deny the search.

    It would only become obstruction, if the search was being conducted legally, and the vehicle owner attempted to stop it.

    In this case, the court also found that the fisheries officer did not have "due cause" to search the vehicle. The fact that the chap had been to the beach was not due cause to believe he had broken fisheries legislation.

    The point of the rant ?

    The search and surveillance bill was introduced as the government was very aware that many of the search and seizure events conducted every day by law enforcement officials were possibly illegal. Now its been sent back. Random stopping of individual groups, may well breach the Bill of Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

    Watch this space as they say.
    David must play fair with the other kids, even the idiots.

  2. #47
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    Attached are 2 pages of stats from NZTA for the years 2004 - 2008 for:

    Tasman District
    & Nelson City

    I will try & get more up to date info this week.

    I do know that a lot of riders from out of town (either foreign or other parts of NZ) do increase our stats here, unfortunately!! People are drawn to come here to ride our awesome roads, but they get caught out with their cornering, with many losing control & running off the road.. as shown on the Tasman stats.. 40% are reported as single vehicle crashes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    NZTA Qualified Motorcycle Riding Instructor/Driving instructor
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  3. #48
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    LOL Feedom - yup that's wot we has in good ole NZ alright...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Silly hypothetical arguments that have no basis in reality are what we call a "constitutiom". Its what distinguishes proper laws from the stuff that the scaley gentlewomam makes up as she goes along


    All part of those silly hypothetical thimgs like feedom, liberty and such like.
    Keep on chooglin'

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadsafe Nelson View Post
    40% are reported as single vehicle crashes.
    That's pretty good.

    Given that there's a shit load more real estate down there to hit than traffic...



    Edit: I believe it's also about the natoinal average.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by davereid View Post
    We certainly don't have a single constitution document in the American Style.

    But the 1986 Constitution Act ties together a number of separate Acts, all of which taken together form a constitution. This includes the 1990 Bill of Rights Act.

    It also Enumerates the Rights of Citizens against the state; enacts into law some of New Zealand's obligations under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

    Basically, New Zealanders have the right to be able to go about their business without being subject to random search and seizure.

    The Police and Government have taken the view that the Bill of Rights is not supreme legislation, indeed that was how it was written.

    But the Courts are not always accepting that principal, indeed they have regularly taken the view that it is de-facto supreme legislation, and can only be overturned with extreme cause.

    So far, no one has ever challenged traffic stops.

    But there have been several very quiet ruling about Fisheries.

    Fisheries officers have for many years conducted random searches of vehicles, boats and people who they believe have been fishing. Generally speaking fisheries officers rely on section 192 of the Fisheries Act , which enables them to conduct warrant-less searches.

    They exercised this right against United Fisheries, when they seized a swath of records and computer equipment.

    Interestingly, the Judge was not convinced that Fisheries had overstepped the mark, as they had some good evidence that the law had been broken. But nonetheless, he found the seizure to be in-conflict with the Bill of Rights. He ordered the Ministry of Fisheries NOT to examine the seized equipment or records, until they had proven their case to the court. The main reason being, in a very complex judgement, that their may be material seized that is not relevant to the "due cause" used to justify the search.

    In another ruling, a man was stopped at a fisheries checkpoint.

    He refused to allow his vehicle to be searched, and Fisheries officers arrested him for obstruction, and searched his vehicle anyway.

    The court ruled that refusing to allow a search is not obstruction. If the officer has the legal power to conduct the search he can do it without the authority of the vehicle owner. If he does not have the legal authority, then it is not obstruction to deny the search.

    It would only become obstruction, if the search was being conducted legally, and the vehicle owner attempted to stop it.

    In this case, the court also found that the fisheries officer did not have "due cause" to search the vehicle. The fact that the chap had been to the beach was not due cause to believe he had broken fisheries legislation.

    The point of the rant ?

    The search and surveillance bill was introduced as the government was very aware that many of the search and seizure events conducted every day by law enforcement officials were possibly illegal. Now its been sent back. Random stopping of individual groups, may well breach the Bill of Rights, and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

    Watch this space as they say.
    Understand all this , but the flange are not stopping individual groups of people, they are targetting a certain type of motor vehicle. They even have special areas for trucks.
    Motor vehicles don't have rights, and nor can they read. It is no secret that there is a campaign here targetting motorcycles.
    Its not personal, there is a problem and they are trying to fix it.
    I mentioned vegetables once, but I think I got away with it...........

  6. #51
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    Dead right, they have found a problem and are trying to fix it and all the so called 'experts' on KB is criticise instead of coming up with some ideas on how to stop fellow m/cyclists killing themselves.

    Plus, they are only stopping bikes, not searching them as is the topic of the rant quoted above.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustyrobot View Post
    I can just see it now... the call goes out on kiwibiker and every rider in the district turns up for a free coffee
    Geeze, they had better not try something like that in the Mahawatu, the locals will simply follow them around

    Quote Originally Posted by cold comfort View Post
    I was speaking to the owner of "a bike hire company" in Nelson who described the spectacular carnage caused by two "overseas" riders not being able to get to grips with the correct side of the road (and the stern safety briefing) actually running into each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roadsafe Nelson View Post
    I do know that a lot of riders from out of town (either foreign or other parts of NZ) do increase our stats here, unfortunately!! People are drawn to come here to ride our awesome roads, but they get caught out with their cornering, with many losing control & running off the road.. as shown on the Tasman stats.. 40% are reported as single vehicle crashes.
    I see an opportunity here Jen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubb View Post
    Nonono,

    He rides the Leprachhaun at the end of the Rainbow. Usually goes by the name Anne McMommus

  8. #53
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    I endorse the "motives" of the police in this instance but I object to the means eg ...I object to being stopped and subjected to an inspection solely because I am on a MC ....with a view to checking if my bike is "Safe" especially considering it is not so much the bikes condition and safety, than the riders judgment that has been at fault ...

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by red mermaid View Post
    Dead right, they have found a problem and are trying to fix it and all the so called 'experts' on KB is criticise instead of coming up with some ideas on how to stop fellow m/cyclists killing themselves.

    Plus, they are only stopping bikes, not searching them as is the topic of the rant quoted above.
    well if I continually get pulled over by the plod then I will be death free. Shit in that case I can ride like I want cos I have no worries.

    More likely some top cop in Nelson has had his butt kicked for so many motorcycle deaths in his distict, and a knee jerk reaction to save face.

  10. #55
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    But then the police have proven from inspections of HMV's that it can have an effect, and reduce the crash rate.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldrider View Post
    More likely some top cop in Nelson has had his butt kicked for so many motorcycle deaths in his distict, and a knee jerk reaction to save face.
    When in fact it should be the motorcyclists that have their butts kicked for dying in throngs.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genie View Post
    ..
    .surely with so many bikes on the road the crash rate would rise.


    Why should this be so Genie ?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    When in fact it should be the motorcyclists that have their butts kicked for dying in throngs.
    While they are dying or after they're dead ?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldrider View Post
    While they are dying or after they're dead ?
    I'm easy.

  15. #60
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    Either way it is too late to find out why they wanted to give up motorbikes.

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