Thin edge of the wedge

[Katman]

I must have blacked out for a decade or two there, when did we have financial immunity? We pay our rego (always have), we pay our earners levy (always have)... sorry i don't see your point.

Hey, it doesn't matter how badly you fuck yourself up, or for that matter, how often you do it, (even, for that matter, how stupid you were being when you did it) - we'll put you back as good as new, and we'll do it for free (apart from the little bit you pay for with your levy). And hey, we're not going to penalise you for coming in as often as you do to be fixed up for the mistakes that your stupidity has resulted in. See you next time.

That's the point i was trying to make.

[MSTRS:Me]

You're not suggesting that those who gear up and ride sensibly etc get a reduction in their levies, are you? Oh the shame....

[mashman]

Hey, it doesn't matter how badly you fuck yourself up, or for that matter, how often you do it, we'll put you back as good as new - and we'll do it for free (apart from the little bit you pay for with your levy).

That's the point i was trying to make.

But you're not put back good as new for free... as you say you've already paid... whethere it be ACC levies or private insurance cover... the resultant, not so free, treatment will be the same... especially if you have a recurrence on an injury... at least under ACC (no fault system) all you need to do is cover the costs for the year... insurance companies need to return a profit on top of that... but everyone has their own opinions... irrespective of how wrong yours is

[Katman]

You're not suggesting that those who gear up and ride sensibly etc get a reduction in their levies, are you? Oh the shame....

Well I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that someone who hasn't claimed off ACC for 20 years can be expected to pay the same amount as someone who has claimed off ACC 20 times in the space of a year.

[Katman]

But you're not put back good as new for free... as you say you've already paid... whethere it be ACC levies or private insurance cover... the resultant, not so free, treatment will be the same... especially if you have a recurrence on an injury... at least under ACC (no fault system) all you need to do is cover the costs for the year... insurance companies need to return a profit on top of that... but everyone has their own opinions... irrespective of how wrong yours is

I've edited my post to hopefully make it a little clearer for you.

[bogan]

Hey, it doesn't matter how badly you fuck yourself up, or for that matter, how often you do it, (even, for that matter, how stupid you were being when you did it) - we'll put you back as good as new, and we'll do it for free (apart from the little bit you pay for with your levy). And hey, we're not going to penalise you for coming in as often as you do to be fixed up for the mistakes that your stupidity has resulted in. See you next time.

That's the point i was trying to make.

You forgot to mention how much it fucking hurts to fuck yourself up, I don't see how money will deter people when that doesn't. Also, what is the proportion of repeat fuck-ups to single ones?

[MSTRS:Me]

Well I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that someone who hasn't claimed off ACC for 20 years can be expected to pay the same amount as someone who has claimed off ACC 20 times in the space of a year.

Don't get me wrong. I do too. And am in the same position, basically. Just as I resent paying a higher premium on my car/bike/house/contents because others have suffered loss.

[Katman]

You forgot to mention how much it fucking hurts to fuck yourself up, I don't see how money will deter people when that doesn't.

No, only an ounce of intelligence will deter people from finding out how much it fucking hurts to fuck yourself up.

[bogan]

No, only an ounce of intelligence will deter people from finding out how much it fucking hurts to fuck yourself up.

yet having to pay more will deter those without any intelligence whatsoever?

[Katman]

yet having to pay more will deter those without any intelligence whatsoever?

I believe so.

[MSTRS:Me]

Mom's wedge has been firmly ensconced in ACC for many years.
We started off with a scheme that treated all NZers the same. A levy on their wages as part of PAYE. Medical cover and income replacement without favour. Regardless of any individual's activities.
The wedge began when pollies started to introduce extra levies for certain activities. And split the fund into different end uses.
At that point, the inequities began. Because some people seem more injury-prone than others, for the same activities.
Yet more inequitable is the fact that many 'risky' activities are not seperately levied today. Which makes a mockery of the reasons for increasing levies on m/c regos.
Not falling off may be a good idea. But really, why all the angst about this when Mr Base Jumper is covered by his $1.40/$100 earned. And so are we, by the same amount when we ride a dirt bike. As is George in his weekly tiddlywinks game. Etc.

[mashman]

Hey, it doesn't matter how badly you fuck yourself up, or for that matter, how often you do it, (even, for that matter, how stupid you were being when you did it) - we'll put you back as good as new, and we'll do it for free (apart from the little bit you pay for with your levy). And hey, we're not going to penalise you for coming in as often as you do to be fixed up for the mistakes that your stupidity has resulted in. See you next time.

That's the point i was trying to make.

Sounds more like you should lose your license if you keep returning in such a fashion... but as we've seen that doesn't work either (especially as you don't need one for off-road riding)... financially penalising Doctors is just another idiotic comment from a group of people who don't want to provide a service, but moreover just want the numbers to look good... in my eyes they should be sacked if that's the way they're thinking...

[avgas]

Its reasons like this - that I feel that we should have a choice AWAY from ACC. If ACC want to play with the big boys of the insurance industry, and use the big boy terms - they should feel what it feels like to compete with them on a level playing field.

[avgas]

Well I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that someone who hasn't claimed off ACC for 20 years can be expected to pay the same amount as someone who has claimed off ACC 20 times in the space of a year.

This is simple, the system is not "user" "pays"
it is ALL PAY
communist health care if you will.

[Winston001]

Well I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that someone who hasn't claimed off ACC for 20 years can be expected to pay the same amount as someone who has claimed off ACC 20 times in the space of a year.

Understood and the answer is ACC is a type of social contract. Its a mix of social welfare and insurance.

One solution is to do away with employers levies and motorist levies by simply imposing an additional tax on every person. Say 10 cents in the dollar rather than the current 2 cents.