Thin edge of the wedge

[MSTRS:Me]

Understood and the answer is ACC is a type of social contract. Its a mix of social welfare and insurance.

One solution is to do away with employers levies and motorist levies by simply imposing an additional tax on every person. Say 10 cents in the dollar rather than the current 2 cents.

You know that extra 2.5% just added to GST? That would be enough to replace ALL other forms/sources of levies.

[Winston001]

You know that extra 2.5% just added to GST? That would be enough to replace ALL other forms/sources of levies.

Quite right. Actually GST should probably be increased to 30% and personal income tax reduced to a flat 20%. Universal income tax is quite a modern idea: until 1900 governments raised money through stamp duties (essentially a sales tax), taxes on property, tariffs and tolls. There is no reason why we can't return to the simplicity of a sales tax.

[sinned]

yet having to pay more will deter those without any intelligence whatsoever?

Even those with low IQ understand what a dollar is worth to them

Not falling off may be a good idea. But really, why all the angst about this when Mr Base Jumper is covered by his $1.40/$100 earned.

Fortunately for the rest of us when a base jumper has an accident it is a pine box ACC pay for rather than years of recuperation.

Understood and the answer is ACC is a type of social contract. Its a mix of social welfare and insurance.

One solution is to do away with employers levies and motorist levies by simply imposing an additional tax on every person. Say 10 cents in the dollar rather than the current 2 cents.

How will that work - bigger ACC, fatter ACC salaries, sounds like a good place to get a job.

How about another idea: Ask private insurers to carry the risk - oh sorry has that already been thought of?

[swbarnett]

So we are then faced with having to either define 'acting like a fuckwit' or we could simply set about reducing the prevalence of the 'fuckwit' behaviour that is costing us all dearly.

Or we could simply accept that ACC is supposed to be a "NO BLAME" system and stop trying to define 'acting like a fuckwit'. i.e You get hurt and the country fixes you up, no matter how you got hurt.

What you propose is to remove the humanity from humans.

You have no more right to enforce your definition of fuckwit on me than I have on you.

[swbarnett]

Well I'm struggling to come to terms with the fact that someone who hasn't claimed off ACC for 20 years can be expected to pay the same amount as someone who has claimed off ACC 20 times in the space of a year.

Simple - "NO FAULT".

[Katman]

Simple - "NO FAULT".

Bullshit. It's more like "Let's allow fuckwits to believe that there's no such thing as consequences to their actions".

[swbarnett]

Bullshit. It's more like "Let's allow fuckwits to believe that there's no such thing as consequences to their actions".

You're still missing the point.

I think it would be a fair bet to say that you don't think simply being a motorcyclist makes you a fuckwit? Well, there are those in society who do. Imagine for a moment if these people managed ACC and a car runs a red light and flattens you and your bike. Sorry, no cover for you. That's why ACC is supposed to be no fault. It means that noone can play god an enforce their opinion on anyone else. I don't like paying for fuckwits any more than you do. I am, however, willing to pay to fix up the fuckwits in order to retain a free society and not have all the life taken out of living.

I don't want motorcycle haters having the power to take away my passion. The only way to stop this is to accept that nobody's opinion has any more validity than any other's, agree to differ and live and let live.

[Katman]

I don't want motorcycle haters having the power to take away my passion.

Then I suggest you start conveying that sentiment to the fuckwits out there who are intent on riding their motorcycles in any manner they so desire - regardless of how it affects you and me. It's them who are playing straight into the hands of the 'motorcycle haters'.

Until we're prepared to address the issue of why we're falling off so often we will be pushing shit uphill with our battle against ACC.

[Katman]

The only way to stop this is to accept that nobody's opinion has any more validity than any other's, agree to differ and live and let live.

Here's two differing opinions......

1. I should be allowed to ride however I like regardless of whether my actions adversely impact upon your motorcycling freedom.

2. We should understand and respect the fact that our actions as individuals affect our freedom as a collective.

Are you telling me that those two opinions have equal validity?

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Understood and the answer is ACC is a type of social contract. Its a mix of social welfare and insurance.

When did I sign this contract???

[MSTRS:Me]

When did I sign this contract???

Big Norm decided on your behalf. You wouldn't speak ill of the dead, would you?

[Katman]

And it was a contract formulated back in the days when society was nowhere near as self-centred as it's become today.

Once upon a time New Zealand had a social welfare system that was the envy of the world. Through the systematic (and rapidly increasing) abuse that it has suffered at the hands of New Zealand society it has more likely become the laughing stock of the world.

ACC has suffered the same abuse.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Lets face it... Its all because the love of money... that they say we need to have all this in the first place... why because the more money you have the more power and control and manipulation you have... (but thats a whole other thread...)

[MSTRS:Me]

Lets face it... Its all because the love of money... that they say we need to have all this in the first place... why because the more money you have the more power and control and manipulation you have... (but thats a whole other thread...)

Funny you should say that. My resonse to this letter ended with..."ACC should be a place where the Golden Rule has no place."

[bogan]

Here's two differing opinions......

1. I should be allowed to ride however I like regardless of whether my actions adversely impact upon your motorcycling freedom.

2. We should understand and respect the fact that our actions as individuals affect our freedom as a collective.

Are you telling me that those two opinions have equal validity?

Interesting question, and perhaps the crux of your campaign. Yes they have equal validity, freedom is being able to ride in the manner of your choosing, so if you change you riding style to take up the second option, you have lost freedom. If you pick the first option then you may adversly effect other's freedom.
Or if you don't ride like an idiot anyway you get to pick both, and that is the point, you and me already choose to ride in a sensible way, so we give up nothing in taking the second option (obviously the one you think everyone should take). Others do have to give up some freedom to take option 2, I know I don't have the right to ask them to give up something which I have not, do you?