Thin edge of the wedge

[MSTRS:Me]

Expect nothing you are not prepared to do yourself....

[Katman]

Interesting question, and perhaps the crux of your campaign. Yes they have equal validity, freedom is being able to ride in the manner of your choosing, so if you change you riding style to take up the second option, you have lost freedom. If you pick the first option then you may adversly effect other's freedom.

And the irony of it all is that those who choose to proclaim their freedom by riding in a manner that adversely affects others will ultimately loose that freedom when it is taken from us all by the powers that be.

[bogan]

And the irony of it all is that those who choose to proclaim their freedom by riding in a manner that adversely affects others will ultimately loose that freedom when it is taken from us all by the powers that be.

which is to say they were riding in a way which adversly affects themselves, which is different to the question you asked.

[Katman]

which is to say they were riding in a way which adversly affects themselves

And the funny thing is that they're too stupid to even realise it.

[bogan]

And the funny thing is that they're too stupid to even realise it.

but how do you educate them of the fact? your proof that they are riding stupidly is when they fall off, just as thier proof they are riding safely is that they don't.

[Winston001]

.... freedom is being able to ride in the manner of your choosing, so if you change you riding style to take up the second option, you have lost freedom....

Agreed but it is an anarchist perspective. Every single one of us give up freedoms when we elect to stay living in society. That's what laws are about. Reasonable constraints on absolute freedom. We aren't allowed to thieve, drive on the right, or commit manslaughter. People who do are punished by society.

It then comes down to a dynamic debate which goes on all the time as to how much our freedoms should be limited. Individual rights against the rights of a civil society.

[swbarnett]

Until we're prepared to address the issue of why we're falling off so often we will be pushing shit uphill with our battle against ACC.

Ah, but it's only opinion, not fact, that we're falling off more often than is reasonable given the inherent risks associated with our chosen activity. As such it is not relevant to the ACC campaign. The fight is for fair levies and services regardless of the risk profile of whatever group we choose to belong to.

[Brian d marge]

but how do you educate them of the fact? your proof that they are riding stupidly is when they fall off, just as thier proof they are riding safely is that they don't.

Should Education be apart of the popos job

Sonny ur riding like a twat , please try and do it this way one more of these and its to riding school u go

Just a thought

Stephen

[swbarnett]

Here's two differing opinions......

1. I should be allowed to ride however I like regardless of whether my actions adversely impact upon your motorcycling freedom.

2. We should understand and respect the fact that our actions as individuals affect our freedom as a collective.

Are you telling me that those two opinions have equal validity?

By virtue of the fact that they are both OPINION, yes.

It is also an opinion that no amount of "fuckwit riding" can possibly affect my personal motorcycling freedom (apart from actually trying to run in to me). It is the people who try to save others from themselve that are the problem.

[Katman]

It is also an opinion that no amount of "fuckwit riding" can possibly affect my personal motorcycling freedom (apart from actually trying to run in to me).

Well it's a rather retarded opinion.

"Fuckwit riding" is already affecting the personal motorcycling freedom of the rest of us.

[swbarnett]

Well it's a rather retarded opinion.

And you are perfectly entitled to this opinion also. I certainly don't agree with it but I wholeheartedly believe in your right to hold it.

"Fuckwit riding" is already affecting the personal motorcycling freedom of the rest of us.

Once more you fail to see my point. The riding of which you speak is only the excuse used by those who revel in poking their noses where they don't belong.