ACC protest movement dead?

[Scuba_Steve]

How many diesels are out there running around with no credit on their RUC? People being what they are, will just abuse the small amount of trust put in them to purchase RUC.
Better to have it on fuel. Drive-offs are easier to catch up with.

but same thing happens now how many vehicles have no reg? It'll be an easy enough fix yes there will be people who try to "skip" on it but if found it'll be instant impoundment/clamping of the vehicle until RUC's are paid in full incl the 1000km's additional (don't care if your in the middle of the desert road, you'll be walking)

[MSTRS:Me]

True. But you can't move without fuel in the first place, and to me it just seems more efficient to do it this way. Besides, aren't we all tired of the big stick method of enforcement?

[rabidnz]

also, no rego/ruc/etc should mean the pump wont even turn on to give you petrol, rfid \could solve that, and even apply no-claims safe driving discounts at the point of sale

[MSTRS:Me]

Got a RUC label on your 20lt fuel can?

[Scuba_Steve]

True. But you can't move without fuel in the first place, and to me it just seems more efficient to do it this way. Besides, aren't we all tired of the big stick method of enforcement?

true it would have to be a balance, but also currently diesel isn't charged on pump & if electric, hydro etc ever take off there's more trouble doing it at pump there then why should I pay RUC's on petrol for my CR250, motor mower, weed eater, land rover etc all which I cannot use on road? & why should anyone pay more RUC, ACC or licensing for using a less economical vehicle? They use the same amount of road & they'll pay more in petrol for being less economical so again unfair to charge them extra because they prefer a 3.0l to a 1.3l or a Godzilla to a Ka etc

[MSTRS:Me]

Argh! You are right! Just goes to illustrate that no system is fair, foolproof.

[davereid]

True. But you can't move without fuel in the first place, and to me it just seems more efficient to do it this way. Besides, aren't we all tired of the big stick method of enforcement?

Most Kiwis just seem to love the big stick, complicated enforcement and big penalties.

Simple, self enforcing, and reliable ideas like fuel tax seem to be beneath consideration !

Even toll roads could be funded by fuel taxes, by the simple mechanism of allowing private operators access to fuel taxes on a vehicle/km basis.

So for example, you build transmission gully. Its 25km and carries 10,000 vehicles a day. You are eligible for 250,000 vehicle/km worth of fuel tax for that day.

Of course, this would never work, as you don't need ANPR, Electronicc Tags, vehicle tracking or GPS, and everyone would have to pay.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

So for example, you build transmission gully. Its 25km and carries 10,000 vehicles a day. You are eligible for 250,000 vehicle/km worth of fuel tax for that day..

then you get why should I pay for a road that I will never ever use...?

[davereid]

then you get why should I pay for a road that I will never ever use...?

Why wouldn't you use it ? If you are ever unfortunate enough to be in Wellington it is the fastest way out !

[swbarnett]

then you get why should I pay for a road that I will never ever use...?

Two words - "Public Good".

The increased productivity that a road like this engenders is of benifit to the whole country - wether we use it or not.

[davereid]

Two words - "Public Good".

There is no getting around the fact that roads have to be paid for somehow. Right now, its from rates, fuel taxes and in a small number of places tolls.

Tolls are generally touted, as Nighthawk pointed out, as a way of making the person who uses the road pay for it. It also allows public-private partnerships, as private enterprise can invest in the road and make few quid.

An appealing idea for cash strapped councils and government !.

And at first glance that seems very fair.

But that person has already paid his rates and his fuel taxes, so he is being "double dipped".

Plus, tolls are traditionally very expensive and hard to collect.

Electronic tolling seems a good way around that.

But heres the rub.

As toll roads become the norm, rather than the exception, you will soon reach the situation where every journey involves tolls. A cost per km that you have to factor into your trip.

This will mean that while strictly speaking, you are only paying for the road you are on, when the entire country is taken into consideration, every user is paying a per/km fee.

You have now gone full circle. Paying a fuel tax, was a neat way of reaching exactly the same end result.

Except the cost of doing it was virtually nil.

[MSTRS:Me]

Politicians, bureaucrats and accountants. Having good ideas since never.

[Ocean1]

Paying a fuel tax, was a neat way of reaching exactly the same end result.

Far more betterer, fuel cost is damn close to exactly representitive of the true cost of maintenance on the road for any given vehicle.

[swbarnett]

the person who uses the road

This is where it gets interesting. The group of people that can be considered users of the road is not limited to those that actually drive on it.

The little old lady who sits in her house watching tele and never leaves still "uses" the road. For example, when she orders groceries over the internet the supermarket driver is using the road on her behalf to deliver them. She is a benifiting from the existance of the road.

[davereid]

The little old lady who sits in her house watching tele and never leaves still "uses" the road. For example, when she orders groceries over the internet the supermarket driver is using the road on her behalf to deliver them. She is a benifiting from the existance of the road.

And paying for it, as the prices of everything in the shop reflect the cost of its transport to the shop, and thence to her.

While her contribution is indeed modest, so is her usage and wear and tear on the road !

But overall, she pays the same rates for her $250,000 flat as the next door neighbour do for their $250,000 house. But they have 8 people in that house, using the same ratepayer funded road to the supermarket.

They also use the park 8 times as much, flush their toilets 8 as times as much...

Maybe we should replace rates with a poll tax - the same amount for each individual ?