Justice?! Schapelle Corby

**Jantar** · 29th May 2005, 03:36

Originally Posted by Biff

The thing that sickens me the most, whether she's innocent or guilty, is that I've been brought up, as have most of not all of us here, in countries where conviction can (read should) only be achieved "without reasonable doubt". There is no way on the planet that this was the case here; there were simply far too many loose ends.

But the issue is that under Indonesian law a defendant is Guilty unless proved innocent. She was found to be in possession, and is therefore automatically guilty. Loose ends will not secure a discharge, it must be proff of innocence. In almost every case the only way to obtain that proof is to actually produce a confession someone else. Of course she was unable to do that.

Even under New zealand law she would most likely be found guilty. On entry to Auckland, she would be asked; "Is this your luggage?" "Didi you pack it yourself?"

An affirmative answer to these two questions would establish a prima facie case against her, and loose ends would not be enough to establish reasonable doubt. However, coming back into NZ with weed would only get community service and a fine, or at most home detention.

**Skyryder** · 29th May 2005, 06:46

Originally Posted by Jim2

I have very little sympathy for Miss Corby.

The simple response to the situation, and one that would make Indonesia pay dearly (if that's your thing) would be to completely stop going there as a tourist.

On the flip side as Mangell has already mentioned, It gives me the screaming heebee jeebies to think that sane, sensible people in "western" countries, with a judicial system that at least pays lip service to personal freedom, can think that they can apply their values and expected legal and sentencing outcome in another country. That is called Imperial hubris folks. How long before you all pack the shottie and head to Indonesia to show the "natives" how it's "supposed" to work?

4kg of green packaged the way it was, is just about the same shape and size as a boogie board for goodness sake.

Either don't go there or padlock or cable tie all your zip tabs together.

So someone breaks the cable or the lock. Can't see that Indonesian judges would take that into account. Bottom line in that country, as one of the judges said to the defence, 'bring me the guy,' and your client is off. Now if the Aussie police can't get the culprit how the hell is anyone else expected to locked in a cell.

Just hope they don't have another major disaster. They won't get much help from this part of the world.

Skyryder

**Kickaha** · 29th May 2005, 08:37

Originally Posted by Big Dave

And you are just as sure that the joke of a legal system that is indonesia - rated one of the most corrupt systems in the world - proves her guilt?!?!

For me - and I suspect many others - it's easy - my most recent visit to indonesia was my last.

And the second statement is even more ludicrous if she didn't do it.

I'm not sure of anything in this world but I'd expect her to notice a 4kg difference in her bag especially if it's something she carts around on a regular basis

Yes my second statement may appear ludicrous"IF" she didn't do it, but "IF" she did it's a whole different ball game! (If's,but's and maybe's are a waste of time)

now "IF" she is innocent why (if it's reported correctly) did she try to stop the customs at the airport opening the bag?

**Rainbow Wizard** · 29th May 2005, 08:53

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=12587

**Dafe** · 29th May 2005, 09:05

INDONESIA (May 2005) - Schapelle Corby found guilty for importing 4.1 Kg of cannibis.
Sentenced to 20 years in prison.

NEW ZEALAND (March 2005) - Stephanie Baker found guilty for importing 6000 LSD tablets into NZ.
Sentenced to 2 years in prison with deportment to her homeland Canada after 4 months, where she will be placed under home detention to serve the remainder of her 2 year term.

Schapelle Corby - Pleads Innocent, not proven guilty. 20 Years (Jail).
Stephanie Baker - Pleads Guilty, Proven Guilty. 2 Years (Home Detention).

Personally, I like the strict laws in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore etc - problem is they need to have solid evidence and proof before applying them.

Is Schapelle Corby guilty? I'm on the fence!
Even though Corby had strong relationship ties to drug rings.

Innocent until PROVEN Guilty! (Thats Human Rights!!!)

**jimbo600** · 29th May 2005, 09:20

Corby is innocent in my opinion. Indoesia hate Aussies and the lack of justice demonstrated over the Corby issue highlights this. I used to holiday in Bali every year, but they can get fucked now.

**WINJA** · 29th May 2005, 10:10

Originally Posted by jimbo600

Corby is innocent in my opinion. Indoesia hate Aussies and the lack of justice demonstrated over the Corby issue highlights this. I used to holiday in Bali every year, but they can get fucked now.

SHE MAYBE INNOCENT WEVE ONLY SEEN ONE SIDE OF THE ARGUEMENT , I BET THERES PICTURES TUCKED AWAY OF HER SNORTING COCAINE AND POSING WITH 1 METER HIGH PLANTS IN HER LIVING ROOM , I THOUGHT SHE HAD A SHADY PAST LIKE BEING A HOOKER AND A DRUG MULE SOMETHING I HEARD COULD BE WRONG. EVEN IF GUILTY 20 YEARS IS LONG IF ONLY OUR CHILD MOLESTORS AND RAPEIST GOT THAT TIME ID BE HAPPY

**mangell6** · 29th May 2005, 10:11

Originally Posted by Kickaha

I'm not sure of anything in this world but I'd expect her to notice a 4kg difference in her bag especially if it's something she carts around on a regular basis

Yes my second statement may appear ludicrous"IF" she didn't do it, but "IF" she did it's a whole different ball game! (If's,but's and maybe's are a waste of time)

now "IF" she is innocent why (if it's reported correctly) did she try to stop the customs at the airport opening the bag?

I'm with you on this.

From reading todays StarTimes article about she could have an easy time in there if she has money, and could even be out in a couple of years.

Mike

**zadok** · 29th May 2005, 10:11

Without hearing all the evidence it is a tough call to make, but there is no doubt under N.Z & Aust sentencing precedents, 20 years is grossly over the top.
Anyway, SAY NO TO DRUGS.

**Big Dave** · 29th May 2005, 10:23

Originally Posted by Kickaha

I'm not sure of anything in this world but I'd expect her to notice a 4kg difference in her bag especially if it's something she carts around on a regular basis

Yes my second statement may appear ludicrous"IF" she didn't do it, but "IF" she did it's a whole different ball game! (If's,but's and maybe's are a waste of time)

now "IF" she is innocent why (if it's reported correctly) did she try to stop the customs at the airport opening the bag?

You might be right - Guess we'll never know eh?

chz

**James Deuce** · 29th May 2005, 10:28

Originally Posted by Skyryder

So someone breaks the cable or the lock. Can't see that Indonesian judges would take that into account. Bottom line in that country, as one of the judges said to the defence, 'bring me the guy,' and your client is off. Now if the Aussie police can't get the culprit how the hell is anyone else expected to locked in a cell.

Just hope they don't have another major disaster. They won't get much help from this part of the world.

Skyryder

If baggage handlers are stuffing drugs into bags they are only going to go for unlocked bags. It takes about 5 seconds to open a zip a bung a bag in. To cut a lock or cable tie requires a tool that would in itself raise suspicion if a baggage handler was carrying it or caught using it on luggage, and takes longer to do. I agree - locking or cable tying your bag is only a deterrent.

But she didn't bother.

There is no question of natural justice or fairness to be discussed. She broke the law, wittingly or unwittingly, in a country where the punishment is known to be extreme. Those of you discussing it from the point of view of how terrible the sentence is are doing it from the perspective of your culture and values system.

Euroipean cultures raped and pillaged "Middle East", "Eastern", and "South East" Asia for 300 years. Huge social problems, particularly in China, "South East", Asia, and the Ducth East Indies were created by the Opium trade of the 19th Century. Why is everyone so surprised that the punishment for foreigners trafficking drugs in those areas are so punitive.

Big Dave: -She deserves sympathy for the effect it will have on her life, BUT she does not deserve any more sympathy than any other person carrying drugs into that area. The so-called Bali 9 are all unattractive and demonstrably gullible and stupid - where's the outpouring of grief for them? They are going to be put against a wall and shot.

She will survive her prison time. Family are "encouraged" to participate in "funding" her prison stay.

I put it to you all - She is only the object of Australasian pity because of Blow Job Lips, Big Tits, and legs that look good in a short skirt. From a purely humanitarian point of view, and that of a parent, I feel for her and her family. But this happens all the time, in many countries, to many people. I find it odd that she has been singled out for attention.

If you don't want it to happen to you and yours, stop going for "cheap" holidays and surfing trips in Indonesia. Their culture is different. Their justice system is different. Their views on the value of individual rights vs the good of society are different.

**Biff** · 29th May 2005, 10:32

Originally Posted by Jantar

But the issue is that under Indonesian law a defendant is Guilty unless proved innocent. She was found to be in possession, and is therefore automatically guilty. Loose ends will not secure a discharge, it must be proff of innocence. In almost every case the only way to obtain that proof is to actually produce a confession someone else. Of course she was unable to do that.

I agree. My point being that we're all used to the innocent until proven guilty process. So that's why I believe most people brought up in a 'judicial' society are somewhat bemused at the verdict.

Originally Posted by Jantar

Even under New zealand law she would most likely be found guilty. On entry to Auckland, she would be asked; "Is this your luggage?" "Didi you pack it yourself?"

I don't know about that. Any defence lawyer worth their salt would have attempted to rip the so called evidence to shreads. At bare minimum they would have questioned the fact that there were no finger prints taken, no CCTV footage at the airport, airport staff at Sydney airport were under investigation and so on.

You may be right, but she'd have serious grounds for an appeal as the only evidence I'm aware of if the fact that the grass was found in a boogie board that she was carrying. But I'm not convinced that in an NZ court a conviction could have been achieved ' beyond reasonable doubt'.

**Ixion** · 29th May 2005, 10:54

Originally Posted by Jim2

If baggage handlers are stuffing drugs into bags they are only going to go for unlocked bags. It takes about 5 seconds to open a zip a bung a bag in. To cut a lock or cable tie requires a tool that would in itself raise suspicion if a baggage handler was carrying it or caught using it on luggage, and takes longer to do. I agree - locking or cable tying your bag is only a deterrent.
..

I have not followed the case of Ms Corby with sufficient diligence to pass comment on her guilt or innocence (though it does seem that the standards of proof are very different to those we are used to).

However, on the subject of locking bags. If you use the "standard" suitcase locks, you may as well not bother. All the baggage handlers , customs staff etc have keys to fit them. If you fit a personal lock with genuine security, you will, before many trips are past, find it cut off, in the name of "security". With a sticker attached. And your bag thoroughly rifled. Having a lock says "something to hide" to airport security. And "something worth stealing" to baggage handlers.

The question of someone planting stuff in luggage is one that concerns me. I though about it the last time I went to Indonesia (costs Rupiah 50000 bribe nowadays at immigration incidentally - inflation everywhere). If someone did plant stuff in your luggage, you'd never notice. Most people just grab their bags off the carousel and sling them on a trolley. Tired after a long trip, you're not going to notice a couple of extra kilo.

And even if you did find out before customs , what are you to do ? "Please officer I just found this " ? Guaranteed to get you at least a life sentence.

There a lot of *VERY* dodgy stuff goes on beind the scenes at airports. Someone planting it on her wouldnt surprise me. Maybe someone wanted to make an example of her ? Perhaps she was asked to run something and refused ? Who knows.

Best answer is not to take hold luggage I guess, though that can be difficult.

**Pixie** · 29th May 2005, 10:57

Originally Posted by Sutage

"Is there justice in Indonesia?" the judges asked in their 80-page, two-hour summation and decision. "Yes there is."

Schapelle Corby gets 20 years in a Bali jail for importing 4kg of marijuana, I dont reckon she did it, whata bout you guys?

4kg has a street value in NZ of about 80000 bucks, how stupid would you be to put a 4kg block of weed in your boogie board bag? Theres no way you can be that stupid.

They cant even prove she did it, no finger prints on the bag.

The other thing that gets my is why would you bring drugs into Bali? People get the drugs out of Bali.. i could understand taking like an ounce (28?) grams for personal use while on holiday, but 4kg is hardly personal use.

What do you guys think? Guilty? Not Guilty? Punishement too harsh/lenient? Should she be able to do her sentance in Australia?

20 years in a fucking bali jail cell is hardly better then death, you guys seen Midnight Express? Christ

Smuggling dope to Indonesia from Aussie
=Taking coal to Newcastle

If the aussies have any spine they should boycot tourism to indonesia
that'll show 'em

**Pixie** · 29th May 2005, 11:03

Originally Posted by avgas

I think none of the above, she's is just plain stupid either way. Sorry but i feel really subtle about this. Guilty - really dumb as we all know the penalties, Not Guity -

why didint she secure her luggage going to bali????

Assuming you travel overseas...do you secure your luggage?
Travelling to the USA for instance ,you are not allowed to lock your luggage.