The ACC saga - a new approach.

[Berries]

I want (thats ME not BRONZ) to see gloves and decent footwaer a mnimum requirement..... if you dont agree thats your call. Its logical and can save thousands if not millions in medical care over say a decade and therefore justify a reduction in the lec\vy's if we can cost less in medical treatment...... utopian I know but its MY OPINION and I am allowed one

My issue with the whole ATGATT thing is what does it actually mean ? I'd go further than you and say a helmet, gloves, decent boots and a decent jacket should be a mininimum requirement. That's my level and when I see people wearing less I think they are idiots. But some of the KB faithful will say you should also have full motorbike trousers. Others will go further and say you should go hi-viz. We all have different views, and I'm sure we all look down at those people who don't adhere to our own standards. But I don't believe in legislating for it. Rider responsibility should come in to it. If you fall off and you aren't protected then tough shit. It will hurt. (And it will cost everyone through ACC, but then I have a fundamental problem with the concept of ACC for road users anyway).

On that note, being too lazy to search does anyone have stats on motorcyclists deaths per age group (matched against numbers of riders)?

First part is easily found, but number of riders ? The MOT knows the number of people with class 6 licences, they even know the number of road bikes registered, but there is no way you can find that out as there is no way anyone can know how many active riders there are.

[onearmedbandit]

First part is easily found, but number of riders ? The MOT knows the number of people with class 6 licences, they even know the number of road bikes registered, but there is no way you can find that out as there is no way anyone can know how many active riders there are.

Yeah I realise this would be hard to establish, the closest you could get would be those that hold a class 6 license with a currently registered motorcycle.

[onearmedbandit]

First part is easily found, but number of riders ? The MOT knows the number of people with class 6 licences, they even know the number of road bikes registered, but there is no way you can find that out as there is no way anyone can know how many active riders there are.

Yeah I realise this would be hard to establish, the closest you could get would be those that hold a class 6 license with a currently registered motorcycle.

[miloking]

Bullshit you do, shows how much attention you pay if you truly think that is what he is saying

Sorry that i offended you and your boyfriend...but how do i have double standarts? I always say live and let live ...its "you" (Katman etc.) and your moral "high horse" condemning people riding bit fast yet you ALL do the same...

[miloking]

Hey StoneY, if you want to progress the rights of motorcycling with the powers that be its not a good idea to call the general manager a liar. In fact its f#@*ing stupid.

Its much better to suck up to him and pretend you are his friend right? Because then he will take pity on you and your "stupid" cause and reduce the levies or something????

Its fucking politics you call a liar ...liar! (even better is to make public realize he is a liar without actualy calling him that...)

thats all there is to it....

[Kickaha]

Sorry that i offended you and your boyfriend...but how do i have double standarts? I always say live and let live ...its "you" (Katman etc.) and your moral "high horse" condemning people riding bit fast yet you ALL do the same...

You haven't offened me in the slightest but could you please point out where I have been "condemning people riding bit fast"?

If you you actually looked at what Katman is saying it is about riding irresponsibly and presenting a bad image to the public not just speed itself

[miloking]

You haven't offened me in the slightest but could you please point out where I have been "condemning people riding bit fast"?

If you you actually looked at what Katman is saying it is about riding irresponsibly and presenting a bad image to the public not just speed itself

Well you are making it sound like what Katman is realy saying, is: ...as long as we have big ad campaign with bunch of bikers holding some kittens/puppies, we can still be "speed demons" and motorcycling is safe.

But iam pretty sure (dont make me go through his posts) many times he called bikers speeding, idiots (and fuckwits, thats his favorite ) ...(commenting quite "harshly" on Beyonds video of him going bit fast for example)

... yet thats not realy the problem with motorcycling, its the people that crash and people that dont wear their shit when riding needing skin drafts and what not...

(not to mention he likes to speed himself)

...realy to summarise this thread: "Katman doesnt like where motorcycling is going, and while riding the same way as rest of us he is blaming everybody else for it")

[yachtie10]

Well join BRONZ Wellington and get me voted out then, meantime i will keep on doing what I have been doing, because it made far more difference to everyday motorcyclists than your flaming and trolling on KB.

I still get strangers thanking me at bike stands throughout the region for helping reduce the levy increase...how many thanked you this week pal?

As for statistics, did Charles Lamb invite YOU to his presentation in Christchurch?
Are you meeting with ACC officials next week?
Have you organised a single public event or made a single statement on behalf of the motorcycling public to the press?
Hmmmm?

My understanding of English is fine, and if you think you can get on Close Up, Radio NZ, TV3 or get a meeting with the ACC General Manager (and show him to be the liar he is on public TV) then place your name on the committee form. If you can do so much better Katgirl, be my guest take over BRONZ and show us how its done......

I commented on this thread because its a FORUM not because I feel the need to swap insults with some opinionated self contradictory hypocryte who wishes to wax rhetorical about 'what if's' while BRONZ has actually made a huge difference as opposed to throwing stones in my own greenhouse

While I am happy to thank you (and others who are not in the limelight) for your efforts
This post (amongst others) shows you may not be the person that should be representing us

[DEATH_INC.]

What I'm trying to say is, that it's not motorcyclists (in this particular study, ie those that treat the road as a race track) we should be looking at, it's a type of personality.

It's really hard to nail down what it is, I've seen riders of all types over the years (as I'm sure you have too) have accidents, and some complete retards that you would have sworn would have died years ago still going strong without so much as dropping the bike in a driveway. It CAN be as simple as wrong place/wrong time. I still say the best thing we can do is try to minimise injury where it can be. Often fatalities aren't preventable ( in the particular situation that arises) and they're fairly cheap in acc's eyes anyway, but we can try to sort out the farmers/trailies/stunters/harley guys/scooterists/shorts and sneaker wearing sportbike guys etc etc (not all of the above of course, just those that don't wear decent gear) that push the costs through the roof for acc. A simple rule of not wearing the appropriate gear/ no cover may work?

edit: that doesn't read right, I'm not blaming all these groups, just trying to give an example of the sort of people I see that often don't wear enough protective shit.

[MSTRS:Me]

Going back to the topic, I see this as being a two-pronged problem.
Reduce the number of accidents
Reduce the number/severity of injuries

The first can be achieved through ads, training, better licencing practices, peer pressure, heavyhanded policing of riding habits. Others?

The second can be achieved through the wearing of protective gear. How to make this de riguer, I don't know. No-one likes subsidising MrPrat in his shorts, but no-one wants it legislated. I've proposed a sliding scale of cover, dependent on gear worn, in the past (per DeathInc's post above) and I have been thoroughly put in my place on that too. So, if you can't make them wear it, and you can't refuse paying for treatment costs, how do you get anyone to actually wear it? If there is a culture of Rossi-styles amongst sprotbikers, there is definitely one of inadequate gear amongst Harley riders. Is education going to do it?

[mashman]

Your egotism is fucking repulsive.

Why don't you focus on the positives Katman. You wanted a start, an in road into those that make the policies and decisions. Look, i think, mmmmaybe, yes yes there it is a BIG FUCKIN DOOR and you want to get personal? Make your case, submit it to BRONZ. If it doesn't get listened to you can always fling red rep around like you're mowing us down for the dispicable motorcyclists that we are. There's a biker there. One who has been quite open about what he wants, passionate and not afraid to get his point across, in no uncertain terms... i'm guessing he listens to what the rest of the BRONZ team and members have to say (they may well be as passionate in their own way) about these things. You want your magazine Ad, talk to Stoney... he may well laugh in your face, he may well be in a place where he can quickly get in touch with the publishers of mags (i've done it in the past)... give it a go.

There's nothing wrong with celebrating personal achievements Katman.

[Katman]

I'd like to ask of the NZ motorcycle magazines that, if they wish to include photos of bikes wheelstandings in the articles they write whether it might be wise to only show them being performed in a controlled environment - i.e. not on a public road.

It's not my intention to try stamping out wheelstands but I wonder at the message being sent out by the magazines when they blatantly protray less than totally responsible behaviour on public roads.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yea but -
Like Playboy mag, whilst some people buy for the articles...would you want the pics censored?
Playing Devil's Advocate here...

[Katman]

Yea but -
Like Playboy mag, whilst some people buy for the articles...would you want the pics censored?
Playing Devil's Advocate here...

I'm not suggesting censoring.

I'm suggesting performing in a more appropriate location.

[miloking]

If it doesn't get listened to you can always fling red rep around like you're mowing us down for the dispicable motorcyclists that we are.

Haha i got 4 red reps (with some "lovely" insults) from Katman in last month or so...anybody can top that?