The ACC saga - a new approach.

[Katman]

The funny thing is that your toadying, kowtowing noise would encourage those who might wish to foist that “protective” legislation on everyone, including you.

If we're the ones coming up with the initiatives then nobody's foisting anything on us.

[davereid]

If we're the ones coming up with the initiatives then nobody's foisting anything on us.

Ahh, that's because the we and us you speak of are actually you and them..

The only initiatives we need are of the fuck off and leave me alone type. Sadly, it will never happen, as busybody helper type people like to use force to help you. Particularly if you don't want to be helped..

[Katman]

The only initiatives we need are of the fuck off and leave me alone type.

No man's an island.

Unless, of course, you're happy to fuck off and live on a deserted island.

In that case - problem solved.

[scracha]

The correct response to officious regulation is to act as if it doesn’t exist. There’s plenty in force already, and so far that’s working just fine for me. Even more unreasonable and restrictive rules on the way? Fine, all the more people find it easy to ignore them.

At what point do they give up trying to lock up a significant percentage of their population to satisfy arseholes who think they know my business better than me?

Right, so there's basically three schools of thought.
1) Shut up, pay our rego's and take it up the arse.
2) Attempt to reduce our accident costs and hopefully the bastards will reduce our rego fees and leave us the fuck alone as we're self policing.
3) Ignore the gubbernment completely. Ride whatever contraption we want wearing whatever we want. Possibly don't give a fuck about correct licensing and certainly don't pay rego fees.

Unless some riders organisation campaigns for a form of civil disobedience by compelling the majority of motorcyclists to say "fuck them" and very visibly ride dirty (no rego) then option 3 is a waste of time IMHO. The anarchist within me wants to believe it could work, and historical events like the poll tax ("they'll abandon it if enough of us won't pay it") would indicate it could work. Unfortunately I believe most motorcyclists in New Zealand are just far too apathetic.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Right, so there's basically three schools of thought.
1) Shut up, pay our rego's and take it up the arse.
2) Attempt to reduce our accident costs and hopefully the bastards will reduce our rego fees and leave us the fuck alone as we're self policing.
3) Ignore the gubbernment completely. Ride whatever contraption we want wearing whatever we want. Possibly don't give a fuck about correct licensing and certainly don't pay rego fees.

Unless some riders organisation campaigns for a form of civil disobedience by compelling the majority of motorcyclists to say "fuck them" and very visibly ride dirty (no rego) then option 3 is a waste of time IMHO. The anarchist within me wants to believe it could work, and historical events like the poll tax ("they'll abandon it if enough of us won't pay it") would indicate it could work. Unfortunately I believe most motorcyclists in New Zealand are just far too apathetic.

Personally I'm opting for a bit of 1, 2 & 3.

I don't actually think the rates are out of line. Though there are inequities in respect to more fairly distributing them (particularly for owners of multiple bikes). I'm quite happy to get behind initiatives from organisations like BRONZ to have a crack at addressing the main inequities (without dedicating my life to it).

I am not remotely interested in..

toadying, kowtowing noise that would encourage those who might wish to foist “protective” legislation on everyone

[Maha]

Right, so there's basically three schools of thought.
1) Shut up, pay our rego's and take it up the arse.
2) Attempt to reduce our accident costs and hopefully the bastards will reduce our rego fees and leave us the fuck alone as we're self policing.
3) Ignore the gubbernment completely. Ride whatever contraption we want wearing whatever we want. Possibly don't give a fuck about correct licensing and certainly don't pay rego fees.

Unless some riders organisation campaigns for a form of civil disobedience by compelling the majority of motorcyclists to say "fuck them" and very visibly ride dirty (no rego) then option 3 is a waste of time IMHO. The anarchist within me wants to believe it could work, and historical events like the poll tax ("they'll abandon it if enough of us won't pay it") would indicate it could work. Unfortunately I believe most motorcyclists in New Zealand are just far too apathetic.

The issue is far greater than just Motorcyclist.
That horse has bolted. It is now time to halt any chance of a quinella/trifecta being collected in any form of Tax, if you know what I mean.

[miloking]

So how far did you get in saying "NO! You shall not tell me I can't have a loud exhaust"?

How far did you get by saying "NO! You shall not make me ride with my headlight on all the time"?

How far did you get by saying "NO! You shall not unfairly target motorcyclists via their ACC levies"?

You're not doing too well so far, are you?

And don't even get me started on the "NO! You shall not tell me I can't smack my child" and "NO! You shall not tell me I can't smoke here".

You seem to have this belief that you're sticking it to the man but in fact you're meekly rolling over every time.

Iam getting quite far on the other hand:

1) Just shortening my yoshi to make it louder (and not make it stick out that much) ..fuck their 95db
2)Jap bikes come with light on so i ride purposefuly with high beam on all the time not just because its illegal but because if they want light they get fucking LIGHT!
3)Bike on hold and putting my cage on hold too just to teach them a lesson...fuck their fees! (might get fake or delaler plates if they realy piss me off)

Dont have children but would smack them just fine if they were naughty and dont smoke...but dont mind the occasional class A or B as thats what you do when you live in auckland city and because fuck "them" telling me about whats illegal substance or not! Its my fucking life to live and i wont be their "worker bee" just so they can collect my taxes and tell me what to do with my 50 years on this planet!!!!! (also breath testing doesnt work on drugs so double fuck em stupid looser cops!)

Just because some faggot pencil shufflers in wellington made some retarded rules to suit their agendas doesnt mean i will follow them...

and dont get me started on speed limits and IRD...

[Mom]

Goodness me, I have held off taking part in this thread, and now I dont know how to respond...

Just how much Class A and/or Class B does it take to render what you post worthy of being moved to jokes and humour.

There is some good stuff in here, but the thread showed cracks last night, I feared it was about to become a pissing competition. You know, my e-penis is bigger than yours, I would have joined in but I dont need to compare my penis to anyone elses, I am quite happy with it. Many people have done much for the ACC cause. There are many that still continue to. Each works in their own way. None is better or worse than the other. God, Desiderata, I best go to bed...

[flyingcrocodile46]

(also breath testing doesnt work on drugs so double fuck em stupid looser cops!)

Signature quoting material right there LMAO

[caseye]

First, equality of all motorists when it comes to fees.
Second,One registration per year per person that attracts an ACC content.All other vehicles owned by that person to be registered annually at current registration costs, only.All vehicles owned to be maintained to WOF standard and seen annually! not 6 monthly.
Third,Fleet owners pay rego and ACC on all vehicles owned by the fleet operator as they attract multiple drivers etc employed by and who's ACC content is paid for by the fleet operator anyhow ,ie : status quo.
Fouth,Discounts for years in/on vehicles without accidnet or incident.
Fifth,Further discounts for advanced course attended for any/all vehicles.
Sixth,Further discounts for those riders who regularly employ ATGATT.
OK Thats my starters list.
It's simple and uncomplicated.
Now all I've got to do is get a whole bunch of hairy arsed bikers to agree to all or most of it and then put their actual support behind me to take it further.
Keep kicking this football folks lets see what else comes of it.
I'm involved in trying to change attitudes from within now and I can tell you it's no easy road.But I consider it worth a crack!.

Sorry Mark, but that's just going back to the same old demanding what we want.

The idea of this thread is to work out what we can do for ourselves, and how we can work with ACC, to improve our lot.

Until we achieve that we have no show of getting the government to take the slightest notice of what we want.

Missed in translation I suspect.
The first thing I listed were my basic ideas as to what any UNIFIED group of motorists would want to be put forward to Govt as areas of mutual concern that may be looked at by both them and us.
It was no list of demands, but a basic charter for the "unified' group of motorist representatves.
Lets keep in mind that NOW the Govt has made enimies of nearly all motorists, so it would follow that any group attempting to self represent with an attitude of co operation should include all motorists who wish to be represented.
You may have noticed that only one of my points was motorcycle specific.
This thread has turned up many points of interest.
It's also highlighting the basic problem with establishing any sort of coherent cohesion amongst minority groups.
Lets try to keep this thing moving forwards not up one anothers clackers just to score points.

[flyingcrocodile46]

the thread showed cracks last night

Pheeeewwwwwww! I'm clear, my first post wasn't til 13 after midnight.

[flyingcrocodile46]

First, equality of all motorists when it comes to fees.
Second,One registration per year per person that attracts an ACC content.All other vehicles owned by that person to be registered annually at current registration costs, only.All vehicles owned to be maintained to WOF standard and seen annually! not 6 monthly.
Third,Fleet owners pay rego and ACC on all vehicles owned by the fleet operator as they attract multiple drivers etc employed by and who's ACC content is paid for by the fleet operator anyhow ,ie : status quo.
Fouth,Discounts for years in/on vehicles without accidnet or incident.
Fifth,Further discounts for advanced course attended for any/all vehicles.
Sixth,Further discounts for those riders who regularly employ ATGATT.
OK Thats my starters list.
It's simple and uncomplicated.
Now all I've got to do is get a whole bunch of hairy arsed bikers to agree to all or most of it and then put their actual support behind me to take it further.
Keep kicking this football folks lets see what else comes of it.
I'm involved in trying to change attitudes from within now and I can tell you it's no easy road.But I consider it worth a crack!.

Missed in translation I suspect.
The first thing I listed were my basic ideas as to what any UNIFIED group of motorists would want to be put forward to Govt as areas of mutual concern that may be looked at by both them and us.
It was no list of demands, but a basic charter for the "unified' group of motorist representatves.
Lets keep in mind that NOW the Govt has made enimies of nearly all motorists, so it would follow that any group attempting to self represent with an attitude of co operation should include all motorists who wish to be represented.
You may have noticed that none of my points were motorcycle specific, that was on purpose.
This thread has turned up many points of interest.
It's also highlighting the basic problem with establishing any sort of coherent cohesion amongst minority groups.
Lets try to keep this thing moving forwards not up one anothers clackers just to score points.

Sounds fair. Put me down for one with a side of buffalo chips. Don't tell them it's for me though as I don't want to miss out.

[Ocean1]

Right, so there's basically three schools of thought.
1) Shut up, pay our rego's and take it up the arse.
2) Attempt to reduce our accident costs and hopefully the bastards will reduce our rego fees and leave us the fuck alone as we're self policing.
3) Ignore the gubbernment completely. Ride whatever contraption we want wearing whatever we want. Possibly don't give a fuck about correct licensing and certainly don't pay rego fees.

None of the above will be effective in reducing ACC charges. Nor do I expect ignoring socially manipulative bureaucratic policy tinkering to change it.

I ignore it for the same reason I ignore loud, obnoxious children: paying them heed gives them power. Their behaviour is transparent , invidious and demeaning, to engage with them is beneath me.

That doesn’t mean I necessarily wilfully break the law every chance I get, or that I don’t have my own values which manage the risk of my actions to passers-by. I simply don’t allow the more condescending regulations to control my behaviour. I choose to see this as anti-social-engineering.

Unless some riders organisation campaigns for a form of civil disobedience by compelling the majority of motorcyclists to say "fuck them" and very visibly ride dirty (no rego) then option 3 is a waste of time IMHO. The anarchist within me wants to believe it could work, and historical events like the poll tax ("they'll abandon it if enough of us won't pay it") would indicate it could work. Unfortunately I believe most motorcyclists in New Zealand are just far too apathetic.

Right wing gubmints have a habit of introducing draconian control measures, possibly their worst feature. Still better than the alternative by the length of the back straight. This lot have shown they will back down if resisted with some accord, however I agree with you, I don’t think there’s the will within what’s effectively a small and fairly anarchistic group to front with the horsepower to make that happen.

In the meantime, fuckem.

[Paul Searancke]

First, equality of all motorists when it comes to fees.
Second,One registration per year per person that attracts an ACC content.All other vehicles owned by that person to be registered annually at current registration costs, only.All vehicles owned to be maintained to WOF standard and seen annually! not 6 monthly.
Third,Fleet owners pay rego and ACC on all vehicles owned by the fleet operator as they attract multiple drivers etc employed by and who's ACC content is paid for by the fleet operator anyhow ,ie : status quo.
Fouth,Discounts for years in/on vehicles without accidnet or incident.
Fifth,Further discounts for advanced course attended for any/all vehicles.
Sixth,Further discounts for those riders who regularly employ ATGATT.
OK Thats my starters list.
It's simple and uncomplicated.
Now all I've got to do is get a whole bunch of hairy arsed bikers to agree to all or most of it and then put their actual support behind me to take it further.
Keep kicking this football folks lets see what else comes of it.
I'm involved in trying to change attitudes from within now and I can tell you it's no easy road.But I consider it worth a crack!.

Missed in translation I suspect.
The first thing I listed were my basic ideas as to what any UNIFIED group of motorists would want to be put forward to Govt as areas of mutual concern that may be looked at by both them and us.
It was no list of demands, but a basic charter for the "unified' group of motorist representatves.
Lets keep in mind that NOW the Govt has made enimies of nearly all motorists, so it would follow that any group attempting to self represent with an attitude of co operation should include all motorists who wish to be represented.
You may have noticed that only one of my points was motorcycle specific.
This thread has turned up many points of interest.
It's also highlighting the basic problem with establishing any sort of coherent cohesion amongst minority groups.
Lets try to keep this thing moving forwards not up one anothers clackers just to score points.

Ideas very close to some of yours have already been promoted as concepts/proposals to the relevant authorities and are a part of ongoing productive discussions.

Paul Searancke

[Ocean1]

PS, there is one thing that perhaps most enthusiasts could agree on.

If there were a deal less bureaucratically generated hurdles involved in setting up small, local club track facilities we might see an increase in club membership, (where hopefully some of the crustier dudes could mentor the whippersnappers) and a corresponding decrease in rampant antisocial road riding behaviour.

I don’t think there’s the will within what’s effectively a small and fairly anarchistic group to front with the horsepower to make that happen.

Anyone care to attempt to prove me wrong?