The ACC saga - a new approach.

[Katman]

Which is what exactly? After all, you're only changing the attitude/perception of 2% of the road going fleet... Money well spent WTF!!!

When it's purpose is to protect the future of motorcycling, fuckin oath it's money well spent.

[shrub]

EVERY road user needs to up their game, not just US.

Exactly, and katman deciding that until all motorcyclists have got their act together we have no right to demand a change from anyone else is silly. Does that mean until every noob on a GN250 has mastered riding to the point where they're unlikely to crash? Or until every idiot power ranger pulls his head in?

It ain't gonna happen, so let's stop pissing around and work with BRONZ and with people like Charley Lamb to push for a more global approach to road safety. I am happy to re-test every 10 years, keep a log book, undergo training etc, but I want Mary Pajero to do the same. Not just because she might take me out on the T Bird, but because she might take my partner out in her Mitsubishi thing or take me out while I'm on my treadly.

If motorcyclists were the only people who needed to lift their game, I'd agree with katman, but they're not.

[Katman]

Exactly, and katman deciding that until all motorcyclists have got their act together we have no right to demand a change from anyone else is silly.

Get it through your thick skull - we have no bargaining power.

[mashman]

When it's purpose is to protect the future of motorcycling, fuckin oath it's money well spent.

I didn't think you were one for conspiracy theories KM... and if the future is set towards the removal of motorcycles from the road by 2050, then we can have ZERO accidents, let alone deaths, between now and then and still end up with the same result, the removal of motorcycles... Can't wait til they try legislating bikes off the road... that'll be an interesting stand off at the beehive.

[shrub]

Get it through your thick skull - we have no bargaining power.

No, you have no bargaining power. The motorcycle community has plenty.

[MSTRS:Me]

I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand - people in glass houses are in no position to throw stones.

I'm sure that's what you meant to say...

[Katman]

No, you have no bargaining power. The motorcycle community has plenty.

Don't make the mistake of seeing the Accident Prevention Group that the ACC has set up as any indication of bargaining power.

We'd be well advised to see it simply as a lifeline that we've been thrown. If we start puffing our chests out and demanding anything, we could find that it's just as easily snatched back out of our grasp.

[shrub]

Don't make the mistake of seeing the Accident Prevention Group that the ACC has set up as any indication of bargaining power.

We'd be well advised to see it simply as a lifeline that we've been thrown. If we start puffing our chests out and demanding anything, we could find that it's just as easily snatched back out of our grasp.

You don't get it, do you?

Do you seriously believe that if we rock up and say "motorcycle license testing is inadequate and driver inattention is a majpr problem" TPTB will say "we won't listen to your concerns about road safety because Johnny Powerranger is an idiot and Nigel Noob can't ride".

get off your bandwagon and look at the bigger picture.

[mashman]

We'd be well advised to see it simply as a lifeline that we've been thrown. If we start puffing our chests out and demanding anything, we could find that it's just as easily snatched back out of our grasp.

but there's always the chance, if motorcycling is threatened, to DEMAND EVERYTHING, not just anything... and I don't see a "ban" on motorcycling turning out well and ending at the steps...

[Katman]

get off your bandwagon and look at the bigger picture.

This is like talking to a retarded child.

Read my fucking lips.......

Nobody is saying that there is not room for improvement right across the road user spectrum, but to take the attitude that "we don't have to make any improvement till everyone else does" will see us treated as nothing more than a pouting spoilt child.

[shrub]

This is like talking to a retarded child

That's why I'm not wasting any more time on you. Goodbye.

[mashman]

This is like talking to a retarded child.

Read my fucking lips.......

it's a computer screen dude ...

Nobody is saying that there is not room for improvement right across the road user spectrum, but to take the attitude that "we don't have to make any improvement till everyone else does" will see us treated as nothing more than a pouting spoilt child.

It's a shame you see it that way. I don't believe that that is what shrub was posting (I may be wrong), or at least my understanding was, why target the smallest group of (taxable) road users, when road users as a group are the problem... You're as bad as the ACC for your short sightedness... we can only ever acknowledge our own shortcomings, noone elses... everyone else needs to be educated to your level (involuntary shiver)...

And if you think shrub is difficult to deal with, you're going to get one hell of a rude awakening should you actually get off your arse and start your campaign... you'll have to deal with people who are out of touch with THE reality of using the road (they get chauffeured)... bon chance Mr Magoo

[Katman]

you'll have to deal with people who are out of touch with THE reality of using the road

Don't worry, this place has given me plenty of practice.

[dipshit]

you'll have to deal with people who are out of touch with THE reality of using the road

shrub... ( http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...lying-about-us ) BRONZ, Prof Lamb, these guys... ( http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/78...-crashes-rider ) ... ( http://www.odt.co.nz/your-town/wanak...otorcycle-club ) ... are the ones out of touch.

[R-Soul]

Which is what exactly? After all, you're only changing the attitude/perception of 2% of the road going fleet... Money well spent WTF!!! I call bullshit argument, nay, I shall Katman yaw ass Mr Ostrich ... Do everyone or don't bother.

2% if the roadgoing fleet on which you pay 80% of the ACC costs, remember... money very well spent by government then...