The ACC saga - a new approach.

[rastuscat]

I know, instead of being 'motorcyclists', we could all become 'motorcatalysts'. You know, we are the change ourselves.

Gag !!!!! Next we'll be sitting around hugging and signing Kumbayah..........

Seriously though, I've never seen a thread with so much common sense in it. It can't last.

[yachtie10]

Accidents per motorcyclists would be more relevant.

In a poll I posted a while ago over half the respondants owned 2 or more motorcycles.

But were they both/all registered? I know a lot of guys that have 2, 3 or four bikes but usually only one (if that) are registered. The others are track bikes, offroaders, project bikes or they just dont register them.

[yachtie10]

In a poll I posted a while ago over half the respondants owned 2 or more motorcycles.

Gee thats nearly as scientific as ACCs maths (sorry couldnt resist)

[Katman]

But were they both/all registered? I know a lot of guys that have 2, 3 or four bikes but usually only one (if that) are registered. The others are track bikes, offroaders, project bikes or they just dont register them.

I own four bikes - all registered- (albeit on hold).

[Katman]

Seriously though, I've never seen a thread with so much common sense in it. It can't last.

Give me time.

[rastuscat]

It depends on where you live. I see a chap from Napier who says ACC doesn't work with bikers. Each area has an injury prevention person from ACC. I don't know who is responsible for Napier, but I know the Christchurch one, and she's a gem.

The injury prevention branch of ACC in Chch is trying to work with bike shops and groups. The ACC rep meets with reps from other groups and supports training days with money and time. The Popos also turn out, even though there is no revenue to collect. Imagine that.

Alisa (from ACC) will be at Ruapuna on 24 July for the next training day, and she has helped to pay for the training day with your ACC levies. Now, that's what it's for.

It's also paid for by David Golightly at Golightly Insurances. Think he is a Vero rep. David has a financial interest in less people making insurance claims, a concept that ACC also relates to. ACC is spending some money to save more money.

So there.

[duckonin]

Only to a defeatist.

The fact is that there are many ways we could reduce the number of motorcycle accidents.

More thorough basic training.
A change in attitude towards the way many of us use the road.
Improving situational awareness.

Same old same old....A change in attitude for 'many of us that use the road',What about the others ?

[davereid]

It depends on where you live. I see a chap from Napier who says ACC doesn't work with bikers. Each area has an injury prevention person from ACC. I don't know who is responsible for Napier, but I know the Christchurch one, and she's a gem.

The injury prevention branch of ACC in Chch is trying to work with bike shops and groups. The ACC rep meets with reps from other groups and supports training days with money and time. The Popos also turn out, even though there is no revenue to collect. Imagine that.

Alisa (from ACC) will be at Ruapuna on 24 July for the next training day, and she has helped to pay for the training day with your ACC levies. Now, that's what it's for.

It's also paid for by David Golightly at Golightly Insurances. Think he is a Vero rep. David has a financial interest in less people making insurance claims, a concept that ACC also relates to. ACC is spending some money to save more money.

So there.

ACC are to be applauded for some of the positive things they are doing. Even some of the latest road side posters targeting bikers are really quite good.

But the problem of a dead duck financial model remains.

ACC insure people, for personal injury and income protection.

In many other countries, your insurance premium reflects the risk to the insurer.. ie

- If your income is higher, your income protection insurance is higher
- your premium is mainly determined the the risk you pose to others (third party liability)
- If you ride or drive a vulnerable vehicle like a motorcycle you pay a higher premium for the risk of injury to yourself..(But you pay a lower premium overall, as you have less risk of liability for injuries to others)

Even though ACC is covering the same items, it insures people, but charges for vehicles.

Thus, the system is inherently flawed. The pensioner who has no ACC income protection cover, and drives a few km a year in a small car, pays the same as a company rep, insured for a hundred grand, who covers the pensioners annual mileage every week.

It also means, that like any charge, as it rises, people will avoid paying it. ACC lose revenue, yet the cover they provide remains unchanged.

$0.12c a litre on fuel would cover it. But ACC can't see past their annual registration fee. They want to use ACC levies to influence our choice in vehicles, and they cant do that with a fuel levy.

[Katman]

Same old same old....A change in attitude for 'many of us that use the road',What about the others ?

Hey, you can be part of the problem or part of the solution.

Your choice.

[duckonin]

Hey, you can be part of the problem or part of the solution.

Your choice.

I shall be neither as it is my choice," I remain responsible for my own health and saftey".....At the end of the day katman you start these topics but offer nothing in the way of a solution yourself... most of your time is spent being negative to others with your cynic attitude..

[Katman]

I shall be neither as it is my choice,

Sounds like a cop-out to me.

[caseye]

8 pages in one day, an afternoon in fact. Well done. A few of the usual, I'll be responsible for myself the rest can fuck off type comments but hey thats to be expected.
I've often said here in KB's threads that it would be better if we motorcyclists came up with iniatives that ACC could and would be happy assisting us with, instead of waiting till we' are legislated off the road because the boffins can see no other way of offsetting the tragic number of single vehicle motorcycle deaths.
Katmans initial idea, start amongst ourselves and get something rolling, take it to Gubbermint and ACC and saying heres what we can do,what can you do to help us? would actually work.Only of course if enough of us were seen to be getting behind the idea of motorcyclists taking responsibility for themselves and of course their peers collectively.
Fees are too high for motorcyclists.
ACC is not broke.
Butt , so what, the longer we spend debating what to do the easier it is for ACC and Govt departments to simply say, without anything forthcoming from the motorcyclists themselves we've decided to do this!
I'm interested in making sure we have a future as contributing members of society be that as motorcyclists involved with ACC or fighting Govt by protesting country wide about unfair levies and stupid legislation.
Unfortunately, the way we can't even get agreement on what to do is indicative of what is wrong with our group, too many indivifuals who insist they're OK Jack!

[Ronin]

I shall be neither as it is my choice," I remain responsible for my own health and saftey".....At the end of the day katman you start these topics but offer nothing in the way of a solution yourself... most of your time is spent being negative to others with your cynic attitude..

And you call KM a cynic? FWIW KM's message has largely always been on target but the delivery sucked. This thread is evidence of change. 8 pages of open frank ideas on how we could help ourselves.

I'm with the better training. Not just for us but for cagers as well. At the moment we are more or less handed a bit of paper and allowed to go out and kill or be killed. Survival mostly a matter of luck.

[MSTRS:Me]

Unfortunately, the way we can't even get agreement on what to do is indicative of what is wrong with our group, too many indivifuals who insist they're OK Jack!

There's nothing really wrong with 'our group'. Barring the commuter-only-type, motorcyclists by and large ride for the sheer pleasure it brings. Although we may do that in a group, we are really a collective of individuals, each of whom get to choose how we ride and what we get out of it. None of us are ever going to agree on how best to approach safety initiatives. I've seen some people's riding, and can only wince at what I believe to be foolhardy, if not dangerous, actions. Yet I know they've been riding for 10/20/30/+ years without incident. Who am I to tell them they should be doing 'this' or 'that' if they want to be safe? Those same people quite likely have looked at me, and winced in turn. Yet my (non)accident record speaks for itself. I've also known some riders whose riding practices I would consider the safest around...but they still died on their bikes, due to reasons that are unclear (single bike, no witnesses).
In saying that, there must be a minimum level of competence reqd, and the current offerings of training around the country unfortunately ignore outside Auck/Welly/ChCh. With the exception of Nelson. There's a whole lot of us nowhere near those places. And I've heard nothing from ACC to remedy that.

[Squiggles]

It depends on where you live. I see a chap from Napier who says ACC doesn't work with bikers. Each area has an injury prevention person from ACC. I don't know who is responsible for Napier, but I know the Christchurch one, and she's a gem.

The injury prevention branch of ACC in Chch is trying to work with bike shops and groups. The ACC rep meets with reps from other groups and supports training days with money and time. The Popos also turn out, even though there is no revenue to collect. Imagine that.

Alisa (from ACC) will be at Ruapuna on 24 July for the next training day, and she has helped to pay for the training day with your ACC levies. Now, that's what it's for.

It's also paid for by David Golightly at Golightly Insurances. Think he is a Vero rep. David has a financial interest in less people making insurance claims, a concept that ACC also relates to. ACC is spending some money to save more money.

So there.

My opinion is that the flaw in the current system is there is a lack of overall vision (its all rather hit and miss, The rep for waitakere is doing one thing but the Auckland central guy is doing another, meanwhile mr motorcycle commutes from south Auckland to Titirangi...) That vision will either come from their HQ or from us as a collective.