Armco posts

**MSTRS:Me** · 13th July 2010, 15:46

Back in April I posted this.
I also wrote to Stephen Joyce...

Dear Stephen

I can not believe what I am seeing with the 'new, improved and approved' post design. The wooden posts were bad enough and have killed numerous people, several being people I personally knew.
With reference to photo #1 on this website page http://www.csppacific.co.nz/Gallery....ctid=nuguard31 I have to ask...Is there a deliberate plot to create more killing and dismembering road furniture and fittings? As if the cheesecutter posts and wires aren't enough, motorcyclists are now faced with what I have drawn and attached.
As a rider of long standing, I am well aware of the need for safety equipment, but I am horrified with what is being employed these days in the name of 'safety'. To hit any type of post is bad news to a crashing rider, but to have an exposed edge like these new posts defies any rational explanation.
As ever, the fix is simple. Will the calls for a bottom rail of some description, such as 'Mototub' used in Europe and Britain to cover the posts, continue to fall on deaf ears? And yes, I understand things like 'cost/benefit ratios' - however, I can only guess at how many kilometers of safety fence/rail posts could be made safer by the amount that one human life is valued at.

I look forward to your response

I just got the attached PDF back

Click image for larger version.

Name: Reply for John Baine.pdf
Views: 53
Size: 85.6 KB
ID: 212747

Not impressed, I have written again...

Dear Stephen
Thank you for your reply, but I am sorry - it does not address my concerns as noted in my initial email (as below).
I note you say that research is being undertaken, but I fail to see why any research is necessary, when it is plain that an exposed thin metal edge will work like a blade on anything soft hitting it. I also note that, with Mototub fitted, there may be a slight potential to alter the effect of a car striking the Armco. However, unless that altered potential meant that (more) car drivers were being killed through barrier strikes, the greater potential for such a protective product to save the life of a motorcyclist would more than recommend its use.
I perhaps do have a 'bee in my bonnet' about some types of road furniture - so would you, if it was killing or maiming your friends. I urge that you view a physical installation of this new type of Armco post, and I believe that you will then fully appreciate the danger they pose to motorcyclists. A danger that is far greater even than the old wooden posts.
I ask you this - if there is little or no research available to prove a piece of road furniture is 'safe' for all potential users, or alternatively none to prove it is not safe, then why are certain types used until such research is available? The NZ public are not guinea pigs, surely? Yet our roading authorities go right ahead installing this stuff all over the country at an ever-increasing rate, and complainants such as myself are fobbed off with comments like 'I hear your concerns, but there's no research etc". Am I being naive in thinking that a single word from yourself could mean that new products are put through complete and proper testing before use?

Regards

Still trying, guys.

**slofox** · 13th July 2010, 15:57

Very valid points you make there, Sir. Hope you get more positive reaction this time...

**p.dath** · 13th July 2010, 17:15

I'm pretty sure I have already read a report by the University of NSW concluding the danger.

**MSTRS:Me** · 13th July 2010, 17:22

Who needs a report? One look at this shit and you KNOW it's dangerous.

**DMNTD:Me** · 13th July 2010, 17:27

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Who needs a report? One look at this shit and you KNOW it's dangerous.

Dang straight it is...had the pleasure of denting some with my shoulder.
I losted...

**MSTRS:Me** · 13th July 2010, 17:37

Originally Posted by DMNTD

Dang straight it is...had the pleasure of denting some with my shoulder.
I losted...

Wood or which of the 2 metal posts?

**DMNTD:Me** · 13th July 2010, 17:42

Metal.........

**MSTRS:Me** · 13th July 2010, 17:49

Can't have been one of the flash new ones...you'd have been more than sore.

**cs363** · 13th July 2010, 19:32

Originally Posted by p.dath

I'm pretty sure I have already read a report by the University of NSW concluding the danger.

This one? http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/atsb201.pdf

Interesting conclusions in regard to this thread, especially since it was done 10 years ago....

(see section 6)

**p.dath** · 13th July 2010, 20:08

Originally Posted by cs363

This one? http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/atsb201.pdf

Interesting conclusions in regard to this thread, especially since it was done 10 years ago....

(see section 6)

Nope, there is a newer one (maybe 2005?) where they did even more extensive research, but ultimately reached the same result.

**MSTRS:Me** · 14th July 2010, 08:48

Originally Posted by p.dath

Nope, there is a newer one (maybe 2005?) where they did even more extensive research, but ultimately reached the same result.

Any report is obselete, in terms of these new posts. It is the new posts that I am particularly upset about. I doubt there is a report on them.

**cs363** · 14th July 2010, 18:56

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Any report is obselete, in terms of these new posts. It is the new posts that I am particularly upset about. I doubt there is a report on them.

Yeah, I hear you - though common sense (yes, i know - we're dealing with the NZTA so probably doesn't apply!) would dictate that the findings in the first few sentences of section 6.1.2would be applicable. Hopefully someone will have some info on the newer report, in the meantime here's some more possibly helpful links:

http://motorcycleminds.org/?p=13
http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc210.pdf
http://www.network.mag-uk.org/barrie...arriersesv.pdf
http://www.motorcycleguidelines.org....l%20report.PDF

Good luck with the fight

**MSTRS:Me** · 16th July 2010, 08:41

From the Monash 'report'...

However, Sweden, with over 600 km of flexible barriers on its roads does not have any
records of motorcycles being “sliced” by the barriers. No other records indicate that
flexible barriers are potential “cheese cutters” or that they are particularly hazardous to
motorcyclists when compared with the alternatives. This experience is also consistent
with the findings of Duncan et al. (2001).

This is a lie. During the CC campaign, I found a Swedish report into WRB, which noted that there had been one death due to CC, and a number of serious injuries (read as ' sliced but alive, just'). I will look for my post that quoted that report and add it here.