Are they really out to kill us?

**bogan** · 15th July 2010, 14:17

Originally Posted by Ronin

Had an interesting conversation with Foxzee about this the other night. How many of us have missed seeing a bike when driving a car? I know I have.

I don't assume all cagers are out to kill me but I do assume they haven't seen me and do all that I can to make it easy for them to do so. Still there are times when they don't.

For the record, I always toot and wave to acknowledge someone that has moved over to let me pass.

things i've missed seeing till the last minute when driving my van:
a quad (think he came from off road so wasn't expecting it)
a pedestrain (he came sprinting across the pedestrian crossing)
various cages
never cut off a bike or cycle though (that i'm aware of)

Maybe cos i look for bikes and cycles rather than traffic, obviously if you're looking hard enough for the small stuff its easy to spot the big ones too. Maybe thats the problem with cagers, they don't look for the small stuff as they don't have any dealings with it.

So are they out to kill us, no, but they don't try too hard not too either!

**Lissa** · 15th July 2010, 14:29

LOVE and peace, respect all and get respect in return, karma and all that...in a perfect or boring world all humans would think and act the same . Humans discriminate because of race, religion, colour of their hair, their disabilities, their sex, or the vehicle they drive I dont think I have ever meet someone who hasnt had some type of stereotype or grudge against someone else for any of these reasons. Its human nature and it can never be changed. I say this because as a motorcyclist myself when I see some dickhead on a bike (while I am in a cage) doing something twatty then yea I think what a fucken retard - not because hes ON a bike, but because hes being a RETARD ON A BIKE. Same for people doing the same thing in a cage. The only way around it is to make a law that only respectful, trustworthy, non prone to getting distracted people can own a bike.

**tide** · 15th July 2010, 16:05

I guess it comes down to attitude,

if you ride with the belief that every cage is out to "kill" you then 1 you've made an assumption that they have actually seen you and are going to purposely try and push/drive you off the road etc, then 2ndly your attitude on the road is aggressive and not conducive to sharing the road with other road uses.

if you ride with the belief that you are invisible then your whole riding style become more defensive, you become more aware of what is around you, etc and I believe safer to yourself and others around you.

Deon

**DarkLord** · 15th July 2010, 18:00

This is something I've been thinking of lately also.

When you are faced with someone who has done something stupid in a car, you don't really know anything about them or who they are and it is so easy to just project your frustrations at the mistake they have made onto them and judge and characterize them as a person through that. They might be a perfectly nice person with a brilliant driving record who makes their first mistake in 20 years of driving, and you just happen to see it, so it is easy to project onto them a judgment of being a "Useless F&*$ing Cager" and "some hateful c*nt who hates bikes and is out to kill me".

I have thought of my own reactions towards car drivers and realized how foolish I would have felt if the person in the car had turned out to be a relative or someone that I knew really well, just perhaps in a car I didn't recognise. All of a sudden I've gone and judged them for being something they really aren't and I've made a complete arse of myself. Fortunately that hasn't happened but it's something to keep in mind.

**Maha** · 15th July 2010, 18:14

'Are they really out to kill us'?

Interesting question...

If this question is found to indeed be the case, then surely it shows intent?
Lawfully showing intent to commit murder (if they are out to kill us that is) is punishable by a term in jail, any Judge in the land would agree.

**maggot** · 15th July 2010, 18:14

Its a mantra designed to make you more aware of potential threats and ride defensively to protect yourself.
If you're thick enough to take it to heart, why are you on the road and not crouching by the motorway with a gun trying to kill the fuckers before they can get you?

It all just comes down to how seriously you wanna take it. It's an expression, not literal, don't take it to heart..

**beyond** · 15th July 2010, 18:37

Most of us motorcylists drive cars frequently and if all motorists were motorcyclists, we would all live a lot longer. Having said that, I've been cutoff by a "cager" who later pulled up alongside me at the gasser and apologised, saying he never saw me and was a motorcyclist himself.

Before anyone says I must have been going too fast I was riding exactly to the speed limit and slowed as I approached the intersection where this happened. The driver eyeballed me and proceeded to just pull out right in front of me.

I always wave at drivers that pull over and give me room when they see me behind them and always try to engender a biker thankful attitude.

Trouble is, more often than not, they just don't see you.

**j_redley** · 15th July 2010, 19:07

I only just saw this thread and havent seen the rest of the thread but.... I do find it annoying when Motorcyclists who ride everywhere, as opposed to those of us who also drive (cars, trucks and busses when the need arises for me) treat those of us who use car's in anyform like idiots.

I know for a fact that having ridden motorbikes makes me much more aware when Im in the car, and I know others are the same. I wouldn't say that they are really out to kill us, I'd just say be as cautious of others as always, its the same in cars as bikes, with the exception being that it'd hurt more if your on a bike than it would in a car.

**caseye** · 15th July 2010, 20:07

OK Katman, ya got me! While I take the mantra " all cagers are out to kill me' seriously I too dont take it as gospel and I don't crouch on the side of the road with a gun.Indeed if cager/motorists in cars move over for me or otherwise behave with respect I reciprcate.
A poster sometime back did say and i tend to agree withn him, that the mantra is only a guide, thats how I've always used it.
Anything to improve motorcycle / motorvehicle relations is a good thing.
While changing attitudes will reap benefits long term,to simply tell motorcyclists not to worry about car/truck, bus drivers is ill informed and will lead to more of our less experienced riders being killed for lack of awareness on thier part of what can and does happena round cars etc.
Your point is a good one.

**Katman** · 15th July 2010, 20:17

Originally Posted by caseye

to simply tell motorcyclists not to worry about car/truck, bus drivers is ill informed and will lead to more of our less experienced riders being killed for lack of awareness on thier part of what can and does happena round cars etc.

Where did I ever say that?

**caseye** · 15th July 2010, 20:54

Originally Posted by Katman

Where did I ever say that?

You didn't.Others here in KB land seem to thinkit's just a storm in a tea cup and it all comes down to personal responsibility.I agree with the responsibility part, not the don't worry part.

**Berries** · 15th July 2010, 23:11

Originally Posted by R-Soul

Perhaps the saying should be:

Cage drivers are:
- blinded by blind spots on their cars
- criminally unaware of their surroundings (most of the time) ,
- largely inexperienced
- prone to mistakes
- largely selfish in what they are doing.

Funny that. In a different Katman thread last week I questioned how many crashes were actually caused by racing on the road and so decided to find out. I have since started looking at all crashes last year resulting in injury involving both a motorbike and travelling too fast for the conditions as a factor. Been going through each individual crash report to see why ‘speed’ was recorded against the crash and pick up any other causal factors.

Still a fair way to go before drawing any proper conclusions, and I’m getting bored already, but based on what I have seen so far there are way too many crashes where largely inexperienced riders (no licence or learner) make simple mistakes. Like not being able to turn at an intersection and remain in the correct lane. Any criticism you can throw at car drivers can just as easily be thrown at riders as well. If you change the word cars to bikes on that first one then all five are relevant to bikes.

**Boob Johnson** · 15th July 2010, 23:41

Originally Posted by maggot

Its a mantra designed to make you more aware of potential threats and ride defensively to protect yourself.
If you're thick enough to take it to heart, why are you on the road and not crouching by the motorway with a gun trying to kill the fuckers before they can get you?

It all just comes down to how seriously you wanna take it. It's an expression, not literal, don't take it to heart..

Oh thank the lord there is someone else with a bit of common sense!

Too all the newbies: Katman makes threads (and massive baseless assumptions) like this on a fairly regular basis. KB'er forum is his soapbox.

Katman you'd be better off spending all this hot air where it could do some good real good by writing letters to your local MP, you may also gain a bit of respect in the process. You could get the licensing board to finally pull their heads in & revamp the licensing system. What this country needs is to stop putting the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff & actually make people jump through hoops to get a license to be on our roads, both bikers & cagers alike. If you are genuine in wanting to fix our problems then try actually doing something about it. Your mad rants are just that.

**R-Soul** · 16th July 2010, 08:31

Originally Posted by Berries

Funny that. In a different Katman thread last week I questioned how many crashes were actually caused by racing on the road and so decided to find out. I have since started looking at all crashes last year resulting in injury involving both a motorbike and travelling too fast for the conditions as a factor. Been going through each individual crash report to see why ‘speed’ was recorded against the crash and pick up any other causal factors.

Still a fair way to go before drawing any proper conclusions, and I’m getting bored already, but based on what I have seen so far there are way too many crashes where largely inexperienced riders (no licence or learner) make simple mistakes. Like not being able to turn at an intersection and remain in the correct lane. Any criticism you can throw at car drivers can just as easily be thrown at riders as well. If you change the word cars to bikes on that first one then all five are relevant to bikes.

good point - those ACC stats about how most of the crashes are by riders alone says a lot about our criminal ignorance as well.