L Plates are dangerous

[davereid]

Just because you don't know your rights, does not mean they don't exist. Putting your head in the sand will only make it easier for them to take you in the arse.

How about a scan from pg 6 of the CLIC (AMI underwritten) vehicle insurance policy.

There is no cover if the person driving or in charge of the vehicle is :
i) not legally allowed to drive in New Zealand, or
ii) not driving according to the conditions of their driver licence

[scumdog]

How about a scan from pg 6 of the CLIC (AMI underwritten) vehicle insurance policy.

There is no cover if the person driving or in charge of the vehicle is :
i) not legally allowed to drive in New Zealand, or
ii) not driving according to the conditions of their driver licence

Don't burst his bubble ya meany!

[PirateJafa]

Don't burst his bubble ya meany!

He can warble on all he likes, it won't change the facts.

It just makes it a waste of my internet cap to continue repeating the same facts back to him. And considering I'm on an unlimited plan, that's impressive.

[st00ji]

i spent time with and without my L plate on while i was on my learners. never noticed much difference in behaviour from other drivers.

the main reason i didnt always wear it was my need to use the motorways, and my refusal to do 70 on them. i figured the chance of getting pulled up doing 100 was much greater with the plate on.

i did get pinged once, was not on the motorway though. bike cop followed me for a while, im guessing he checked the licence status of the registered owner or something and pulled me up. i told him why i wasnt wearing a L plate, and he gave me a big lecture on being irresponsible, etc etc. and how i would be losing my licence with that attitude, the works. (first demerit points in 6 or 7 years)

then he spent our last five minutes together telling me if i had just told him that it had fallen off and i was going home to fix it up he would have let me go. i said 'i told you the truth, i thought you guys appreciated that' he mumbled something like 'uh yeah, right well full credit to you, but mumble mumble'

shrug.

[Scorp]

What bugs me is the middle ground. 70k is an insanely dangerous speed to go on a 100k road. But I'm the kind of guy who wants to comply with the law. So here I am, L plate on (and it will stay on till I pass my restricted) but can't keep to 70k cause it's dangerously slow, and won't do 100k cause I know it's just asking to be pulled over.

But the fact is that at 85 to 90 with an L plate on I am constantly getting tailgated by incredibly impatient drivers. Utes, vans and trucks seem to be the worst offenders. I think what another poster mentioned is a major factor, they see the open road beyond and want it. Plus, you've probably only half registered on their radar anyway.

I ride on the right side of the lane, around the region of a car's right wheel track. But when I get a tailgater, I pull over and let it by. I'd rather I had half-concentrating impatient fuckers in front of me where I can see them more clearly, than up my ass.

[bogan]

What bugs me is the middle ground. 70k is an insanely dangerous speed to go on a 100k road. But I'm the kind of guy who wants to comply with the law. So here I am, L plate on (and it will stay on till I pass my restricted) but can't keep to 70k cause it's dangerously slow, and won't do 100k cause I know it's just asking to be pulled over.

But the fact is that at 85 to 90 with an L plate on I am constantly getting tailgated by incredibly impatient drivers. Utes, vans and trucks seem to be the worst offenders. I think what another poster mentioned is a major factor, they see the open road beyond and want it. Plus, you've probably only half registered on their radar anyway.

I ride on the right side of the lane, around the region of a car's right wheel track. But when I get a tailgater, I pull over and let it by. I'd rather I had half-concentrating impatient fuckers in front of me where I can see them more clearly, than up my ass.

It is a poorly thought out rule, I'm guessing the idea was to keep learners off busy high speed roads. either learn slowly round town, or find a quiet rural road, trouble is it's too hard to quantify those points so they went with a 70kmhr limit. Basically they don't want learners commuting in busy traffic at high speeds. Not sure if I agree with it or not, for some learners its a good idea, but others who already have enough riding experience don't represent a significant risk, only 6 months though.

[p.dath]

What bugs me is the middle ground. 70k is an insanely dangerous speed to go on a 100k road.

I think the point is that learner riders are not *meant* to go on 100km/h roads that also have traffic moving at 100km/h. Recognising that it is not safe to ride at 70km/h with 100km/h traffic is great.

Consider it a probationary period for "learners" to learn machine control skills, and to become situationaly aware. The fact of the matter is, the faster you go the faster your brain has to process information. And when none of that information has been learned yet and has become second nature, that represents a considerable amount of information.

The largest group of motorcycle accidents involve just a motorcycle, and no other road user. What does that tell you about how tricky it is too learn these things?

I do take some learners out with me from time to time on 100km/h roads - but we tend to go on back roads that are quiet, and we just pull over to let any cars go buy that come up behind us.


Unfortunately it usually takes a good "off" or a fright before we sit back and contemplate these things.

[Scorp]

either learn slowly round town, or find a quiet rural road

I'm surrounded by quite rural roads... where the speed limit is 100k. Therein lies the problem. A classic example is a real nasty bend that just keeps going and catches out dozens of cars every year. Speed limit 100k - Orange advisory sign 45k. I take it at about 65 (smoothly) in my car, but on the bike, as a learner, somewhere just over 55. I make a point of get my speed and gear selection sorted before the bend, but dipshit daydreaming car drivers going in to hot can just jam on their brakes at the apex and correct. Messy, but doable. The (infrequent) result is that I find myself slowing down in preparation for the bend, while being rapidly closed on by a car doing 80k not preparing for it. Not a nice view in the mirror.

[bogan]

I'm surrounded by quite rural roads... where the speed limit is 100k. Therein lies the problem. A classic example is a real nasty bend that just keeps going and catches out dozens of cars every year. Speed limit 100k - Orange advisory sign 45k. I take it at about 65 (smoothly) in my car, but on the bike, as a learner, somewhere just over 55. I make a point of get my speed and gear selection sorted before the bend, but dipshit daydreaming car drivers going in to hot can just jam on their brakes at the apex and correct. Messy, but doable. The (infrequent) result is that I find myself slowing down in preparation for the bend, while being rapidly closed on by a car doing 80k not preparing for it. Not a nice view in the mirror.

sounds like you need to worry more ab out the corner than whats in your mirror, in my experience some cagers just like to come up quick to other vehicles, doesn't mean you are in any danger of getting hit. When you do a mirror check before the corner, if there is someone there, double tap the brakes to flash the brake light just to be on the safe side.

[Scorp]

sounds like you need to worry more ab out the corner than whats in your mirror, in my experience some cagers just like to come up quick to other vehicles, doesn't mean you are in any danger of getting hit. When you do a mirror check before the corner, if there is someone there, double tap the brakes to flash the brake light just to be on the safe side.

Yeah, to be honest, it unnerved me the first time, but now I just get on with what I'm doing. Mind you, not sure double tapping the brakes is a good idea while I'm braking before a bend, wouldn't that sort of involve unbraking twice

[davebullet]

On the VTR250 when I was re-learning to ride, I got deliberately tapped from behind by a 4WD when I might have spent a few seconds fuddling into first at the lights.

I got home and removed the L plate.

I believe more drivers get infuriated when they see one, than give you some slack. I think on average it is more dangerous.

My advice? - Put it on initially, get enough skills so you don't wobble all over the place (eg. say 1 month of solid riding) then take it off. You won't get pulled over if you look like you know what you are doing on a bike and are not breaking the law.

Besides - I'd rather take the $400 fine than goad cagers who get frustrated at the sight of an L plate.

The NZ motorcycle laws need to be sent to Chip Foose for some serious Overhaulin'

[bogan]

Yeah, to be honest, it unnerved me the first time, but now I just get on with what I'm doing. Mind you, not sure double tapping the brakes is a good idea while I'm braking before a bend, wouldn't that sort of involve unbraking twice

before the corner I said! (I count braking for the corner as part of the corner btw) Once you get into the corner you want ot be able to focus mainly on getting round it, I say mainly as you should also be looking out for hazards etc.

On the VTR250 when I was re-learning to ride, I got deliberately tapped from behind by a 4WD when I might have spent a few seconds fuddling into first at the lights.

thats pretty shit, didn't they think to use a horn or something? Used to get the odd tap at the lights from a mate who was laughing his head off behind me (got him back latger by hitting his engine kill switch when we we departing ) pretty unnerving really, not what learners need at all.

[p.dath]

I'm surrounded by quite rural roads... where the speed limit is 100k. Therein lies the problem. A classic example is a real nasty bend that just keeps going and catches out dozens of cars every year. Speed limit 100k - Orange advisory sign 45k. ... The (infrequent) result is that I find myself slowing down in preparation for the bend, while being rapidly closed on by a car doing 80k not preparing for it. Not a nice view in the mirror.

There is a great defensive "driving" technique I use for this. Tap your brake three times as your approach the corner. Your flashing brake light more clearly warns others behind you that you are slowing down, even if you are not deliberately braking to slow down.

[p.dath]

I believe more drivers get infuriated when they see one, than give you some slack. I think on average it is more dangerous.

Off all the drivers/riders I know, and of all the times we have discussed driving/riding/road safety, not once has anyone ever said they get infuriated when they see an 'L' plate. Not one.

I would say the exact opposite. Most road users are more likely to give you some slack when they see the 'L' plate and than to decide to suddenly change their entire demeanour and become aggressive towards 'L' plate users.

No one wants to be in an accident with anyone else. Seriously. And an 'L' plate signifies you are learning road skills, and so more care needs to be given to the person with the plate.

I do believe 'L' plate users may be more sensitive to what happens in their environment as they are learning new skills, and there brains are having to process more information because some skills have not been learned enough yet to become second nature.

Think about it. The mere idea of the majority of road users "targetting" "L" users sounds preposterous.

[st00ji]

perhaps they have not been honest with you? i'm able to recognise in myself the angry impatient feeling you get when someone holds you up on the roads, even for just a few seconds. guy on pushbike means you have to do 30k for 10 seconds? RAR! some idiot taking his third attempt at a double park? GRR! grandma pulling into 60k traffic at 25k? PHWOAR! it doesnt make sense, but it happens... and when i see an L plate on a car, my first reaction is 'great - heres another 40k bandit, how can i get past him'

luckily im not such a cock that i actually act on such feelings... but that doesnt mean others dont.

actually getting a bike was the best thing i did in this light, since it means im easily able to avoid those situations!