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Thread: should we protest against learners in high-powered cars?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by XP@
    But if restricted riders can ride 400's then the demand for 400's will go up and 250's will go down, thus evening out the price gap?
    No, because each of the 400 buyers will already have bought a 250.

    Say, there are 100 new learners entering the scene in a year. And suppose they are all poor and can't buy a new bike.

    So there will be 100 people looking for 250s each year. They'll keep the 250 untill full licence then sell it and get a whatever

    Now assume that you can have a 400 on restricted.

    You STILL have 100 learners looking for 250s . So the demand has not changed. And the supply has not changed either, just a timing difference, the learners will flick off the 250 when they move to restricted instead of full.

    So the price of 400s will go up , but the 250s will stay the same.

    The only thing that will change the pricing on 250s is

    (a) more people buying new ones , so the supply of second hand ones increases. Or fewer learners crash and write off their bikes, thus increasing the supply. Or someone starts importing 250s . So greater supply
    (b) More people graduating to full licence relative to new learners entering the scene (extreme example, if no learners started at all the demand for 250s would almost dry up. Almost because there would be a few full licence holders buy a 250 as a second bike; and some 250 riders would crash and need replacement bikes.). So less demand.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  2. #77
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    400 to a 1000 is still a bloody big jump. Just cos it's legislatively "safe" doesn't mean to say it'll do a hell of a lot. The difference between a 250 and a 400 would be fairly modest, but the difference between a 400 and a 1000 is night and day.

    I jumped 400 to 636 and that was a 100% increase in horsepower, and I'd have to jump another 50% of the 636 to get on a 1000. So 400 to 1000 could be a 200% increase in power. For a 16/17yo? Wow - that's asking for it. Best thing to do is keep the younger generation poor through fines and study costs until they have enough maturity to handle a 1000 (pt)
    "You, Madboy, are the Uncooked Pork Sausage of Sausage Beasts. With extra herbs."
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  3. #78
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    bah, keep me poor then

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion
    No, because each of the 400 buyers will already have bought a 250.


    So the price of 400s will go up , but the 250s will stay the same.

    The only thing that will change the pricing on 250s is

    (a) more people buying new ones , so the supply of second hand ones increases. Or fewer learners crash and write off their bikes, thus increasing the supply. Or someone starts importing 250s . So greater supply
    (b) More people graduating to full licence relative to new learners entering the scene (extreme example, if no learners started at all the demand for 250s would almost dry up. Almost because there would be a few full licence holders buy a 250 as a second bike; and some 250 riders would crash and need replacement bikes.). So less demand.

    Good point Ixion: but you also get people like me who have been riding on farm so know how to handle bike, pass scratchie without problem ( even though they gave me the car scratchie to do) hire a 250 to get restricted time on bike 100 Ks at most, am bout to get my full with probly 2 hours experience, and you can get 250s now with more go than my 400cc.

    Apparently in Ausi they take power to weight ratio into account.

    Especially when you see L plates on a lowered 2Turbo Legacy.

    Why pick on the bikes when it's usually the cars that do most of the damage.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by raster
    Good point Ixion: but you also get people like me who have been riding on farm so know how to handle bike, pass scratchie without problem ( even though they gave me the car scratchie to do) hire a 250 to get restricted time on bike 100 Ks at most, am bout to get my full with probly 2 hours experience, and you can get 250s now with more go than my 400cc.

    Apparently in Ausi they take power to weight ratio into account.

    Especially when you see L plates on a lowered 2Turbo Legacy.

    Why pick on the bikes when it's usually the cars that do most of the damage.
    Yeah, personally I don't agree with the restriction (when I leaqrnt to ride there wasn't one). For , inter alia, the reasons you specifiy. I was just elucidating the economic logic that makes 250's overpriced so long as there is a restriction at any level
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  6. #81
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    I am not going to waste my money on one just for a few months
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  7. #82
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    Most of the 250's around for sale nowadays are from the early 90's. I would think the motorcycle companies will be looking at making some new 250cc models soon and prices will drop once they are released.

  8. #83
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    bring back the bantam/cub

    Flying down Finsbury park road in the 3rd lane 2 up at 80mph on a bsa bantam ,,,is erm more exciting than any of your GSXZXRW RS turbos ,,,at 290 km ( been there ,,boring ) ...,,

    The bantam was a big bore 185cc with epoxyed transfers , and an atmosph comp of ( I think 7 to 1 ) ... it flewwww

    The point of the above bolloxs is the stopping distance up the arse of a ford fiesta ,,is the same ...0.001 mm and the results are the same ...except the forks on a bantam are cheaper to replace ...
    up to 25years old ..... arses and elbows are indistinquishable ...( ha ! got me tongue round that one !!
    A gb500 is a damn site slower than a JHA nsr 250 ...either way its the eyes and brain thats the key to making it to 26 years ( those under 40 ,,, you bunch of lucky baskets ,,, I tell you I would do everything again ,,but with more GUSTO ,,, a LOT more Gusto !!)

    NOPE its all about being reserved with the use of power ...( yes a bsa bantam had power in these days!!)

    Driver training
    I am sure they could milk us for the same amount of cash ..with driver training as they do with speed tickets

    Stephen

    Hooked on POWER ,,,now owning a Royal Enfield ...( 120 km/h and a set of forks ,,at a mind boggling 70 dollars ,,, a cam set at not much more than 100 !!
    "Look, Madame, where we live, look how we live ... look at the life we have...The Republic has forgotten us."

  9. #84
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    aye? wrong topic?

    i dont like how bikers are "picked on" in a way by the licensing system, where car learners can have massively overpowered cars but i cant have an r1 (not that i'd get one, too expensive and too scary 4 me atm)
    would be good to see some legislation against the power of some cars these days, they do do quite alot more damage than bikes.....

  10. #85
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    Arrow

    In a perfect world, wouldbe cage drivers should be made to spend 2 years [say] on a bike first ---- hopefully would either give 'em enough traffic savvy to make them aware drivers for the rest of their pitiful existance or would kill 'em beforehand........... either way's ok with me?
    ... ...

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  11. #86
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    I think that very young car drivers should be restricted to 1.1 litre or less until they are 18, then 1.3 litres. The maximum for a restricted license unaccompanied driver should be 1.3. I don't think that it would stop too many boy/girl racers though cos I don't think that many have licences in the first place.
    It's a Rocket

  12. #87
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    I believe that you can ride any size bike that you want as a learner in the UK. Maybe they'll draw a line one litre short of a Rocket 111. People who learn on bigger bikes need to have a trainer accomany them on another bike though.

    In NSW you can learn on a 30ps bike regardless of capacity. There are restrictor kits available for lots of bikes. Hyosung have a 650 called the comet 650L which has the restrictor built in and is road legal. May be a good option for NZ, but then again, restrictors do tend to be easy to remove from some bikes.
    It's a Rocket

  13. #88
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    Skill should be taken into acct toooooooooooooooooo.
    Put through some extensive training instead of just sent into the wild and learning or dying. Fines should be used for training, put to work to improve peoples skills and awareness.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstriumph
    In a perfect world, wouldbe cage drivers should be made to spend 2 years [say] on a bike first ---- hopefully would either give 'em enough traffic savvy to make them aware drivers for the rest of their pitiful existance or would kill 'em beforehand........... either way's ok with me?
    That would open a few peoples eyes.
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  15. #90
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    Review the need for "Rules".

    Don't make new rules get rid of the old ones.
    Rules and regulations should be kept to an absolute minimum.
    If a rule or regulation can't be policed then it's a stupid rule.
    Individual responsibility should be taught and nurtured into our young people so that they can enjoy their lives and learn from their own mistakes.
    There will be casualties but the better they are taught the fewer casualties there will be. Thems are the risks.
    Society has to stop treating our young people like nutters just because the older generation had to be lead round by their Socialist snouts.
    Old people have to learn that if they expect young people to act like idiots then the young will always exceed their expectations.
    Note it's election time. Labour and the left do not advocate "Individual responsibility". They will always make a rule for everybody instead of treating the source of the problem.
    Today's Kids are fantastic just squashed down by too many rules regulations and political bullshit. Oh I am starting to wind up but please think about it.
    "Freedom brings personal responsibility. Collective rules stifle initiative"
    Who will give you greater freedom. Think about that when you vote. Cheers John.

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