should we protest against learners in high-powered cars?

[SPORK]

Bike Licences:

upto 250cc on Learners, take away the 70kmh limit (that limit is a crock of shit)
upto 400cc on restricted.
upto whateveryouwant cc on Full (The jump from a 400 to a 1000 would be far easier, if that rider chose to)

Yargh, that's exactly what I think, in my infinite bikewisdom.

Car Licences:

Learners start at 16 (doesnt matter what car they drive as they will be supervised)

Restricted, restrict the power of the vehicle to 100kW (at the crank)

Full, drive what you want...

Mwaugahaha! Too late to stop me!

ALSO, Defensive Driving courses are required before sitting your full...

Anyone that wouldn't take one is a fool... they take time off your restricted, don't they?

[Jeremy]

Aren't defensive driving courses a little useless for those on bikes? We have to cover more in the motorcycle road code.

Defensive driving: "Imagine that everyone else is stupid"
Motorcycle road code: "Everyone else is stupid and blind"

Defensive driving: "Watch their wheels"
Motorcycle road code: "Watch their wheels, head, and just expect them to do all sorts of random stuff"


Personally here's the thing I'd like to most see. If you can pass the full test (which should be much harder and more comprehensive that what it currently is) then you get a full license. None of this wait 18 months stuff.

[madboy]

ALSO, Defensive Driving courses are required before sitting your full...

I'm assuming they've changed in the (12) years since I did mine - cos the defensive driving course I did didn't teach me jack. Now the CBTA I did a year ago - that taught me a few things.

Education is only valuable to those who want to learn. At 17 I already knew everything I needed to know, so why burden my already brilliant mind with trivial details I didn't think I needed to know? Strangely by 28 I didn't know shit and needed to learn lots more.

[SlashWylde]

The problem wiht the depensive driving courses car drivers go on is that, well, there ain't no driving involved. You sit in a classroom at your local highschool for a few hours for a couple of weeks and listen to a lot of commonsense drivel then get a pass

The CBTA and Bronz courses on the other hand actually teach you how to ride better and safer.

Until the Govt makes practical Defensive Driving courses mandatory with some sensible demonstration of ability to gain a pass, then we will continue to experience the generally low level of aptitude displayed by so many motorists.

[scumdog]

I'm assuming they've changed in the (12) years since I did mine - cos the defensive driving course I did didn't teach me jack. Now the CBTA I did a year ago - that taught me a few things.

Education is only valuable to those who want to learn. At 17 I already knew everything I needed to know, so why burden my already brilliant mind with trivial details I didn't think I needed to know? Strangely by 28 I didn't know shit and needed to learn lots more.

Wait 'til you hit 50, you'll be stunned by how little you know!! (or remember for that matter)

[XP@]

Many years ago i was working in car / house insurance in the UK.

An young guy comes in and askes for a few quotes for cars. He had just passed his test and wanted something like a 205, escort or something. He asked why the quotes were in excess of 2000 POUNDS per year (he was getting finance so needed full insurance). My answer... try the 1300cc version not the 2000cc!

Anyway, that was on the friday, the next morning I got a call from a cell phone with real crappy reception. I got as far as understanding it was him and he had a new car. He did not understand that I could not put him on cover without the reg number.

So with his new peugot 205 1.9gti he took some of his mates drive in to a ditch about 3 hours after buying the car. He did survive, just but would never drive again.

The insurance company did not pay up. Was not really surprised about that.

[Two Smoker]

Actually you guys are wrong, the Defensive Driving course has been changed greatly!!! It is far better than when i did mine 4 or so years ago... There is NOW a practical session, and if you dont pass the practical session you fail the course... You can also do the practical test on a motorbike, so they do cater for motorbikes...

And Jeremy for going from Restricted straight to Full, its called the CBTA course.. I dont qualify for it because i have over 80 demerit points...

[pommie girl]

Actually you guys are wrong, the Defensive Driving course has been changed greatly!!! It is far better than when i did mine 4 or so years ago... There is NOW a practical session, and if you dont pass the practical session you fail the course... You can also do the practical test on a motorbike, so they do cater for motorbikes...

Interesting ... I did the defensive driving course last month and there wasn't a practical element to it at all. I found it an interesting course because I actually wanted to attend, however the rest of the class, approximately 20 teenagers, couldn't have cared less and seemed even less interested in learning how to drive safely.

The driving age over here is waaaaay too young and they definitely should be restricted to the size engine of the car. Plus, I seriously believe that having insurance should be mandatory!!! It might stop some of the younger kids getting too powerful a car and then not bothering with insurance because they can't afford it ... and wham, weeks later you've got a mess on your hands ...

[Indiana_Jones]

I hate those dick teen cage drivers, they can drive whatever they want, but they can't even use the clutch without blocks under their feet.

I think some form of restriction is in order.

-Indy

[Squiggles]

i got thru 3 pages of this and got tired

im only 17 and all, so no experience in comparison to the rest of u really....but...

as far as i see it, motorbike's get the 250cc limit until you get your full, by which time you have probably gained quite a bit of experience and could handle the power of a 400.....car's have no limit, i goto a reasonably rich school and quite a few people drive around in there parents subaru legacy's or holden commodore's.......and well, i've been taken out twice on a push bike by them and have had 1 close miss on my mtrbike...... i remember it was on the news or something a while back, someone asked the minister if it was possible to legislate against the power of cars, to stop the number of crashes happening when younger people drive powerful cars...he said no, no such legislation is possible, but havent they already done this with motorbikes and the 250cc thing?

[Squiggles]

upto 250cc on Learners, take away the 70kmh limit (that limit is a crock of shit)
upto 400cc on restricted.
upto whateveryouwant cc on Full (The jump from a 400 to a 1000 would be far easier, if that rider chose to)

hell yeh, i'd be with tht

[XP@]

Random thought, but a knock on effect of upping the restricted cc's to 400 could be a change in price of the 250 cc bikes.

At the moment 250's command a really high price for what they are. I guess the price of a 400 would go up but would the cost of a 250 go down?

[Ixion]

Random thought, but a knock on effect of upping the restricted cc's to 400 could be a change in price of the 250 cc bikes.

At the moment 250's command a really high price for what they are. I guess the price of a 400 would go up but would the cost of a 250 go down?

No. Supply and demand. Since as many people (ie all) would still need to buy a 250. 50 - 250s are dear because there is a high demand (all learners need one) and not many new ones sold because (a) learners are usually young and have little money (b) they don't want to commit a lot of money to what is seen as a short term measure.

To get the price of second hand ones down either more new ones must be sold (increasing supply), or the law must be changes so that not all learners are restricted to <250

[XP@]

No. Supply and demand. Since as many people (ie all) would still need to buy a 250. 50 - 250s are dear because there is a high demand (all learners need one) and not many new ones sold because (a) learners are usually young and have little money (b) they don't want to commit a lot of money to what is seen as a short term measure.

To get the price of second hand ones down either more new ones must be sold (increasing supply), or the law must be changes so that not all learners are restricted to <250

But if restricted riders can ride 400's then the demand for 400's will go up and 250's will go down, thus evening out the price gap?

[Coyote]

I would've thought 250 during learners then 400 on resricted wouldn't work so well. Ideally you would have a single capacity maximum for both like we have now. Most people would either get a 250 and keep it untill their full anyway cause they haven't got the money for a 400 or they would buy a 400 and flog it off as a 250 whilst on their learners. Either keep it at 250 or change the law to allow bikes up to 400.